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FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

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Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously arguing that bringing up the Democratic party's pro-slavery attitude during the Civil War has some relevance to current day political dynamics?

No, not at all. But I have to know, why in the world would you bother posting such a blatant straw-man on a site frequented by smart people? Cmmon man, you are better than that. I just don't approve of smug ideological loyalty when it leads to promulgating mythology as fact. That's all.

I understand the frustration. In the interest of constructively combating such, I'd encourage you to raise the level of discourse. One option is to steelman, as opposed to tear down a straw man, and discuss in good faith. What do you think they were referring to? What were they trying to convey? I find Rapoport's rules particularly useful, at least as a starting point.

https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/03/28/daniel-dennett-rapo...

Help make HN better rather than further contribute to the sniping that all too often passes for discourse on contentious issues.

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#22
post #14
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I don't disagree there are currently some racists/supremacists who are also registered Republicans, unless Republicans suddenly were a pro-slavery party in the 1960's, "flipped positions" isn't really accurate in that regard. Also the 1964 Civil Rights bill was voted along party lines like this: House: Democrats: 63% yea. House: Republicans: 80% yea. Senate: Democrats: 69% yea. Senate: Republicans: 82% yea. In…

I believe the post is not referring to a sudden exchange of political identities, but rather to the Southern Strategy. This definitely had its roots in the 1964 Civil Rights Act, but was a long, deliberate process by the Republican Party to exploit racial divisions for political gain. The RNC chairman formally apologized to the NAACP for this specifically in 2005. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

That 2005 apology is ringing pretty hollow in 2017.

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you seriously arguing that bringing up the Democratic party's pro-slavery attitude during the Civil War has some relevance to current day political dynamics?

No, not at all. But I have to know, why in the world would you bother posting such a blatant straw-man on a site frequented by smart people? Cmmon man, you are better than that. I just don't approve of smug ideological loyalty when it leads to promulgating mythology as fact. That's all.

Well, that's honestly how I understood what you were saying. What smug ideological loyalty are you arguing against?

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#24
post #21
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, not at all. But I have to know, why in the world would you bother posting such a blatant straw-man on a site frequented by smart people? Cmmon man, you are better than that. I just don't approve of smug ideological loyalty when it leads to promulgating mythology as fact. That's all.

I understand the frustration. In the interest of constructively combating such, I'd encourage you to raise the level of discourse. One option is to steelman, as opposed to tear down a straw man, and discuss in good faith. What do you think they were referring to? What were they trying to convey? I find Rapoport's rules particularly useful, at least as a starting point. https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/03/28/daniel-…

Fair enough. The insinuation at which I took offense is forgiven.

A Happy Solstice to all and let there be peace in the world.

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#25
post #5

I think people know, but Sinclair is the emerging threat to American public debate that is controlled by conservative owners. Sinclair requires their local affilate TV stations to run conservative-biased segments. In one case last year Sinclair lied about Hillary and the Democrats -- they required their local affiliates to run this segment -- saying viewers "should not vote for Hillary because Ds were historically pr…

> But all educated Americans know that the parties flipped their positions in the 1960s when Dems under LBJ courageously pushed out the racists to pass the Civil Rights Act and the racists moved to the Republicans.

That is an oversimplification.

What happened is that overtly racist policies fell out of favor. People talk about structural racism today, but nobody can say with a straight face that it's the same now as it was in the days of Jim Crow laws.

By the 1960s the Democrats saw the writing on the wall. The political winds were changing and they adjusted their sail. But supporting Jim Crow had been how Democrats got elected in the south. By voting with the Republicans to pass the Civil Rights Act, they alienated all the old racists who voted for them specifically to prevent that from happening.

The south was ready to skin them and eat them at that point. The Republicans weren't too stupid to realize that. All they had to do to take the south was to show up and be Not The Democrats.

Some racists (e.g. Strom Thurmond) switched parties, but in general the Republicans were never as racist as the Democrats historically were. They didn't have to be. Popular support for racism has been on the decline for more than a hundred years, and the remaining racists no longer trusted the Dems so the Republicans never had to give them anything or even really promise to give them anything to get their votes.

It's not so much that the Republicans flipped as that the racists lost and that redrew the electoral map.

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#26
post #12
post #5

I think people know, but Sinclair is the emerging threat to American public debate that is controlled by conservative owners. Sinclair requires their local affilate TV stations to run conservative-biased segments. In one case last year Sinclair lied about Hillary and the Democrats -- they required their local affiliates to run this segment -- saying viewers "should not vote for Hillary because Ds were historically pr…

While I don't disagree there are currently some racists/supremacists who are also registered Republicans, unless Republicans suddenly were a pro-slavery party in the 1960's, "flipped positions" isn't really accurate in that regard. Also the 1964 Civil Rights bill was voted along party lines like this: House: Democrats: 63% yea. House: Republicans: 80% yea. Senate: Democrats: 69% yea. Senate: Republicans: 82% yea. In…

Uh huh.

What were the parties looking like post Nixon?

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#27
post #5

I think people know, but Sinclair is the emerging threat to American public debate that is controlled by conservative owners. Sinclair requires their local affilate TV stations to run conservative-biased segments. In one case last year Sinclair lied about Hillary and the Democrats -- they required their local affiliates to run this segment -- saying viewers "should not vote for Hillary because Ds were historically pr…

> But all educated Americans know that the parties flipped their positions in the 1960s when Dems under LBJ courageously pushed out the racists to pass the Civil Rights Act and the racists moved to the Republicans. That is an oversimplification. What happened is that overtly racist policies fell out of favor. People talk about structural racism today, but nobody can say with a straight face that it's the same now as…

Well said. I’m amazed by how blind history is to LBJ’s racist roots. LBJ was a life-long cold blooded political operative. His “courage” was strategic. And it worked.

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#28
post #5

I think people know, but Sinclair is the emerging threat to American public debate that is controlled by conservative owners. Sinclair requires their local affilate TV stations to run conservative-biased segments. In one case last year Sinclair lied about Hillary and the Democrats -- they required their local affiliates to run this segment -- saying viewers "should not vote for Hillary because Ds were historically pr…

> But all educated Americans know that the parties flipped their positions in the 1960s when Dems under LBJ courageously pushed out the racists to pass the Civil Rights Act and the racists moved to the Republicans. That is an oversimplification. What happened is that overtly racist policies fell out of favor. People talk about structural racism today, but nobody can say with a straight face that it's the same now as…

Some racists (e.g. Strom Thurmond) switched parties, but in general the Republicans were never as racist as the Democrats historically were. They didn't have to be. Popular support for racism has been on the decline for more than a hundred years, and the remaining racists no longer trusted the Dems so the Republicans never had to give them anything or even really promise to give them anything to get their votes.

This is kinda sorta true, but it neglects to mention that the "Southern Strategy"[1] was a real thing:

In American politics, the southern strategy was a Republican Party electoral strategy to increase political support among white voters in the South by appealing to racism against African Americans.... Republican politicians such as presidential candidate Richard Nixon and Senator Barry Goldwater developed strategies that successfully contributed to the political realignment of many white, conservative voters in the South that had traditionally supported the Democratic Party to the Republican Party.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#29
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But all educated Americans know that the parties flipped their positions in the 1960s when Dems under LBJ courageously pushed out the racists to pass the Civil Rights Act and the racists moved to the Republicans. That is an oversimplification. What happened is that overtly racist policies fell out of favor. People talk about structural racism today, but nobody can say with a straight face that it's the same now as…

Some racists (e.g. Strom Thurmond) switched parties, but in general the Republicans were never as racist as the Democrats historically were. They didn't have to be. Popular support for racism has been on the decline for more than a hundred years, and the remaining racists no longer trusted the Dems so the Republicans never had to give them anything or even really promise to give them anything to get their votes. This…

Not to mention some pretty solid data about where the anti Black racists reside.

It's hard to imagine a Klan member being a Democrat, within the past few decades.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2017/04/1...

Re: FCC Fines Sinclair Broadcast Group $13.4M for Running Sponsored Content as News

#30
post #12
post #5

I think people know, but Sinclair is the emerging threat to American public debate that is controlled by conservative owners. Sinclair requires their local affilate TV stations to run conservative-biased segments. In one case last year Sinclair lied about Hillary and the Democrats -- they required their local affiliates to run this segment -- saying viewers "should not vote for Hillary because Ds were historically pr…

While I don't disagree there are currently some racists/supremacists who are also registered Republicans, unless Republicans suddenly were a pro-slavery party in the 1960's, "flipped positions" isn't really accurate in that regard. Also the 1964 Civil Rights bill was voted along party lines like this: House: Democrats: 63% yea. House: Republicans: 80% yea. Senate: Democrats: 69% yea. Senate: Republicans: 82% yea. In…

This is absolutely true, and the Republicans rightly deserves to be applauded for this.

But the OP was referring to the Southern Strategy[1] which had its roots in (Republican) Barry Goldwater's 1964 presidential campaign where he campaigned against the civil right act and picked up Democrat voters in the South:

Goldwater decided to oppose the Civil Rights Act of 1964. He believed that this act was an intrusion of the federal government into the affairs of states and, second, that the Act interfered with the rights of private persons to do business, or not, with whomever they chose, even if the choice is based on racial discrimination.

Goldwater's position appealed to white Southern Democrats, and Goldwater was the first Republican presidential candidate since Reconstruction to win the electoral votes of the Deep South states (Louisiana, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and South Carolina).[2]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy#Roots_of_the...

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