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Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

bloomberg.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#171

Post by spenczar5 »

mulmen wrote: post #160
fitchjo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finding a use for the underlying technology supporting bitcoin is very different than saying bitcoin as a fiat currency is worth the value at which it is currently trading.

I'm not a financial expert but I thought the value proposition of Bitcoin is that it is not a fiat currency.

That's a strange thing to say. I think of a "fiat currency" being one which 1. is not backed by a physical good, like gold, and 2. is recognized by a government, so you can pay taxes and fines with it. Why would it be beneficial that you cannot pay your taxes with Bitcoin?

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#172

Post by randomsearch »

etr-strike wrote: post #149
tootie wrote: post #29

Can someone explain this collective mania to me? This is all 100% pure speculative frenzy, right?

Most of us Bitcoiners are skeptical of modern monetary policy and want a risk-free store of value for our wealth. Today Bitcoin is very risky, however, we believe its fundamental properties will ultimately lead to a stable place to put our savings. Sure, it won't gain interest or dividends but it also won't be subject to inflation or central banker manipulation. The above is purely my opinion and is frequently the su…

So why bitcoin rather than another cryptocurrency?

If another becomes more popular, everyone shifts to it, and the price crashes, what use was bitcoin as a store of value?

The difference with other assets like cash or gold is that they have value that is supported by a clear rationale based on a central bank’s economic policies.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#173

Post by nextstep »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

Some of the negativity about Bitcoin in particular is around the relative lack of utility of the actual network, and how this usefulness hasn’t grown with the price. Currently, Bitcoin Core (the dominant fork still) has ridiculously large transaction fees (sometimes averaging over $20 for a given day) and transactions can take hours or days.

There’s also some contention because Bitcoin Cash (the other fork of Bitcoin) is in a lot of ways closer to the original design of Bitcoin (“peer-to-peer cash”), but is having to fight for the name “Bitcoin”.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#174

Post by fasquoika »

nullbyte wrote: post #35
sedtrader wrote: post #6

Going to need some rules and regulations. Last thing we need are big banks overleveraging on crypto currencies for the excess return. When, not if, this bubble bursts hopefully it doesn't take the whole economy down with it. The whole financial market wants exposure to crypto at this point.

You can't regulate cyptocurrencies. That's the beauty of the whole thing.

The government has literally regulated cryptography before https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crypto_Wars

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#175

Post by solotronics »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. If I can keep my own record of wealth why would I entrust a third party that doesn't care anything about me? Perfect example is Wells Fargo opening accounts and charging people.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#176

Post by bogomipz »

headmelted wrote: post #26
victor106 wrote: post #7

They typically do this for a few reasons: 1. High net worth clients demanding such products. 2. Obvious FOMO. 3. In case this crypto thing becomes big they don’t want to be criticized. 4. All companies are seeing a nice bump in their share prices with any association to crypto

Mostly I think it's 1. A lot of people jump on guys like Jamie Dimon and Lloyd Blankfein for calling Bitcoin massively volatile / a bubble / whatever, like they hate cryptocurrencies. They don't care, and they aren't supposed to. Their business is to sell whatever the customer wants to buy, cheaper or easier than they can get it elsewhere - and right now the customer wants to buy Bitcoin. Who cares if the backside fa…

I think the same but its, 1 because of 2 i.e high net-wroth clients fear of missing out.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#177

Post by qaq »

workthrowaway27 wrote: post #111
qaq wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They are just making markets" are you seriously implying GS and JPM are just making markets :)?

Given that prop trading has been severely curtailed at investment banks, yes.

JPM makes about 1/5th of profit from "trading" and of that I seriously doubt market making is much of a contributor.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#178

Post by jaymzcampbell »

solotronics wrote: post #175
asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

for me at least it is an opportunity to keep my own wealth. If I can keep my own record of wealth why would I entrust a third party that doesn't care anything about me? Perfect example is Wells Fargo opening accounts and charging people.

Totally this. Brexit has me not trusting the government I reside under as far as I could throw it. I believe in crypto as an ideological position and hope to see it continue to grow. It might not be Bitcoin that wins in the end but decentralized, truly global, non-governmental mechanisms of money control are needed. There is far too much power in their hands as they push for "cash" to become digital (i.e. traditional bank accounts with access via debit/credit cards).

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#179

Post by dinkumthinkum »

twohearted wrote: post #127
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If. I see no reason to consider that, though. You'd have to say that, not only the US dollar, but every paper currency is crashing, along with gold. That seems quite a stretch.

That is exactly what the cryptocrazies are stipulating. It's cryptocurrency vs fiat. Seen from the fiat perspective, it's an obvious bubble. But if you're on the cryptocurrency side, it's barely the start of a massive and inevitable shift.

I think there are so many kids that did well in science and math and love science fiction and probably enjoy dabbling in some kind of tech libertarianism and have a certain naïveté about cryptocutrencies and what will happen in society. I mean this in a nice way but the view that the apparent obscene volatility of cryptocutrency is a sign of it's stability and the USD is crashing, is an intensely delusional view. That really cannot be understated.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#180

Post by wepple »

asenna wrote: post #168

What's with all the extreme negativity with Bitcoin and its trading price on HN? I've been noticing that in all the BTC related threads recently. Yes, this is possibly getting too large too fast. Yes there is a chance this is a bubble because the barbers and shoeshine boys are talking about it. But there is also a chance that we genuinely are at the beginning of the transition from Fiat currencies to crypto (beginnin…

I’d hazard a guess that a lot of the fundamentals haven’t really changed in an interesting way - it’s just becoming more widespread and popular, which isn’t interesting from a tech perspective. And I don’t disagree with throwing a small amount of cold water on the hype - the number of headlines aren’t in line with the actual utility of it.
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