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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

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Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#191

Post by GiorgioG »

mgkimsal wrote: post #190
GiorgioG wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I originally responded to the wrong parent. This isn't about survival of the fittest, if you have no skill, then you are going to have trouble finding a job that has good benefits. No one is stopping you from acquiring a skill (outside of cases when you're sick...obviously.) You can become a plumber, carpenter, electrician, etc. and make a decent living.

and... we'll just give a big 'fuck you' to everyone else who gets sick at some point, and can't go back to work, or has skills that get passed by in the marketplace. hey - just go back to school for a few years, juggling some low wage jobs while you get more skills! so that you can win some approval from some employer where yay you can pay extra money to have some insurance so you can afford medicine to keep yourself…

> and... we'll just give a big 'fuck you' to everyone else who gets sick at some point, and can't go back to work, or has skills that get passed by in the marketplace.

Capitalism doesn't care if you get sick. It only cares if you have time/skill to trade. That's the cold hard reality. In this country, capitalism trumps just about everything else. It has its advantages and disadvantages for sure. By the way, I'm not saying all of this is morally "right" - it's just the way it's always been, capitalism/business comes first in the USA.

I agree that society needs people to be doing low-end crappy work, but maybe if there were fewer low-skilled laborers in the job market, there would be more competition for their services (i.e. the employers would have to offer better benefits.)

I'm all for universal-healthcare and frankly my family would be a primary beneficiary.

As far as safety nets go, how far do we go? If I got sick, I wouldn't expect you (and everyone else collectively) to pay my mortgage, grocery bills, etc. for potentially years on end. Where do we draw the line? How do we prevent people from gaming the system? I know people in Europe who have been "sick" for years.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#192

Post by _m8fo »

benjohnson wrote: post #188
uoaei wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authoritarians hiding as collectivists has given a bad name to the latter, but let's be sure to not conflate or causally link the two.

How can you have state-wide collectivism without authoritarian control? There's always going to be a few people who want to be independent - and you can only squish that at the point of a gun.

This is a great question -- I think the jury is still out on this one. Someone will eventually figure out the right set of incentives, in the right quantities, targeted to the right groups that'll make it work, though.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#193

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

binaryapparatus wrote: post #160
creaghpatr wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Greece? The country where the population no longer dreams about their future due to total economic implosion? https://www.cnbc.com/2017/12/08/after-nearly-a-decade-of-eco... "We don't dream. We are fine, we continue our lives, we know that we don't live in extreme poverty. But if you want to learn a second language, if you want to do something for yourself, improving your skills, you can't or you are very limited," E…

I spend at least one month in Greece every year, they are _almost_ as relaxed as 20 years ago. Is there a chance that mass media tries to push one specific narrative, which does not reflect actual state?

Both you and your parent comment can be true. The economy may be doing terribly relative to other European countries, but if Greece values quality of life over economic development, then this wouldn't be terribly surprising.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#194

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

tbirrell wrote: post #163
uoaei wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The defense spending isn't necessarily the issue, it's the meteoric rise of allocation in the budget year after year to defense spending. We are overspending, and it only gets worse for the citizens.

I think this is a result of never truly leaving a wartime economy. We had WWII, then the Korean War, then the Cold War (with Vietnam in the middle) all on top of each other and justifying the expense for almost 50 years. I don't think America knows how to cut defense without losing military dominance. As te_chris said, Defense spending might be a red herring, but I would say it is almost certainly the foundation of t…

Cutting military spending would also hurt the American economy massively. There are over two million soldiers in the military, with an unbelievable number of nonsoldiers building equipment that they use. If we scale back, all of that money injected into our economy would be lost.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#196

Post by nunez »

jdlyga wrote: post #20

This really, really depends on where you live. If you live in New York, you can get amazing food everywhere. We have things like paid family leave, free college, universal pre-k, etc that most Americans don't have. Also if you're working at a high pressure finance job, of course you will work long hours. But those are the exception. Working from 10 - 6 is pretty common for most people I know.

> Also if you're working at a high pressure finance job

If you're working that type of job, you're almost certainly getting very well-paid for your efforts; more than you would be paid in London or elsewhere

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#197

Post by manicdee »

padseeker wrote: post #34

This article starts off terribly. It does not get contain enough real substance till it gets to the point about the differential in life expectancy and discusses the point about 'the myth of exceptionalism in America'. The whole line about the difference in entertainment is utter drivel. Big Brother started in the UK, there is plenty of garbage culture coming from Europe. For the record I've met quite a few Europeans…

The lack of safety net is exactly why the opportunities for profit in the US are greater. In the US you can consume people’s lives to build your fortune, while in Europe you have to take care of your employees.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#198

Post by Trill-I-Am »

FabHK wrote: post #170
wildermuthn wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article's major flaw is lumping all "Americans" together. Life expectancy varies wildly across race and income. America has always chosen to make the desires of the rich and powerful more important than the needs of the poor and powerless. We sometimes call this the American Dream. Equality in America isn't about all people having a decent life. It is more akin to Animal Farm: "All animals are equal, but some ani…

> it is silly to claim that "Americans" are living poor lives Good point. The funny thing though is that the median American leads a fairly drab life, but still fully subscribes to his own exploitation, if you will. Witness the election of a Republican president, house, and senate. As John Steinbeck is reported to have said, "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited pro…

John Steinbeck never said that. At least not now it’s popularly quoted.

https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/23ar71/tem...

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#199

Post by FabHK »

Trill-I-Am wrote: post #198
FabHK wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is silly to claim that "Americans" are living poor lives Good point. The funny thing though is that the median American leads a fairly drab life, but still fully subscribes to his own exploitation, if you will. Witness the election of a Republican president, house, and senate. As John Steinbeck is reported to have said, "Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited pro…

John Steinbeck never said that. At least not now it’s popularly quoted. https://www.reddit.com/r/NeutralPolitics/comments/23ar71/tem...

However, Ronald Wright reported that he had said it, see the "Disputed" box at the end of the Wikiquote article. EDIT to add: FWIW, it's an insightful aphorism independent of who said it.

https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/John_Steinbeck

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#200

Post by raarts »

tptacek wrote: post #118
cdoxsey wrote: post #90

Ameericans do realize how unhappy they are. There's an epidemic of opiate addiction. That unhappiness is the result of many things: major changes in the job market leaving millions without opportunities, the collapse of hundreds of small towns and communities, the disintegration of the nuclear family, etc. Ironically, materially, Americans are much better off than they were decades ago, but all that material prosperi…

Non-medical opiate use is up double digits in Europe as well. The opiate epidemic is coming to Europe. There's more to it than "life is hard".

I think you refer to this article: The Opioid Epidemic Hits The European Union [1]. Note that the title of that article contradicts the contents though. There is a big difference between the current opioid epidemic in the US, and an 'increase in non-medical drug use for prescription painkillers'.. One of the researchers is even quoted to say: "We can learn much from the E.U. in terms of how to prescribe opioids in the context of a national healthcare system"

[1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/cjarlotta/2016/08/09/high-rates...

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