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Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

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Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#41
post #16
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in my experience, the real dicks you want to avoid would never casually call themselves dicks. I don't know Howell, but that reads more as light self-deprecation than an admission of genuine toxicity.

The biggest dicks are the smooth guys who always say the right things and never take a position.

I wonder why is this downvoted? Sane discussion that benefits everyone rocks.

People who avoid that usually have nothing to tell.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#42
post #33
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have written the same. I have no idea what Google understands by "inverting a binary tree", but to me it looks this. "Recursively swap left with right." Now just convert that to an inferior language, like java or python, so they can understand it.

If you are faced with a question like this in a Google interview, and you simply state the answer above right away, you are only solving part of the problem. A Google interviewer expects you to ask questions and clarify any simplifying assumptions you may have made. For eg: Are you assuming right at the beginning that the entire tree fits in memory? If so, Google interviewers expect you to clarify that at the beginni…

If a tree is so big it doesn't fit into memory, what are you trying to achieve by swapping it?

How about just working with the original tree the way it is and just traversing it in reverse order, if necessary.

I would probably ask if this is in-place or do we treat the input tree as immutable.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#43
post #32

Only the people who interviewed Max and people on the hiring committee know why he was rejected. Maybe he was a bad cultural fit(if he actually is a dick?), maybe he failed horribly at answering some question, who knows?

People who are dicks can hide that in interviews, though. They can hide it much better than not being able to invert a binary tree, in any case.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#44
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14952574

I have not worked at Google and have no idea what the list in question is, who maintains it, or what it takes to get on said blacklist. Speculation admits a lot of possibilities, including your own, but there's no evidence that managers created that list. It could well be line staff producing and publishing their own list of preferences. As a random example, perhaps a list of known sexual harassers that HR has not ac…

People who tweeted about adding names to the list were identified via LinkedIn as managers at Google. I don't want to doxx anyone because maybe they have seen the folly of their ways but there was a whole furore about it at the time.

In the UK employer-maintained blacklists are illegal http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36242312

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#45
post #7

The real question is why people care so much about working for Google. If you're good, then you'll find success with or without Google, and if you're not good, then why would one complain about Google not hiring them when you don't even believe in your own ability. It's bizarre, really.

I don’t think it’s irrational that programmers would want to work for the firm with the recognizable prestige and among the highest industry-leading compensation.

I could get offers at Jane Street or Two Sigma for more money, doing potentially way more interesting things, but my mom isn’t going to brag to her friends about it.

This is notwithstanding that many people would likely recognize the prestige of those companies within tech and finance circles.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#46
post #3

But ultimately, should Google have hired me? Yes, absolutely yes. I am often a dick, I am often difficult, I often don’t know computer science, but. BUT. I make really good things, maybe they aren't perfect, but people really like them. Surely, surely Google could have used that. No, Google shouldn't have hired him, and he made it very clear why: he's a dick. Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1…

Be careful with binary assessments of whether someone ‘is a dick or is not a dick.’

The linked article draws more differences than similarities as far as I can tell. Max Howell readily admits weakness before pride. He brags outwardly at the end of his message, which was a little distasteful, but it was after he widely incriminated the project he is bragging about. The linked article describes a very different type of person. People are rarely so simple.

There are many depths of info and systems available for concieving/understanding personality types and archetypes. Reply if you’d like some recs.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#47
post #46
post #3

But ultimately, should Google have hired me? Yes, absolutely yes. I am often a dick, I am often difficult, I often don’t know computer science, but. BUT. I make really good things, maybe they aren't perfect, but people really like them. Surely, surely Google could have used that. No, Google shouldn't have hired him, and he made it very clear why: he's a dick. Related discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1…

Be careful with binary assessments of whether someone ‘is a dick or is not a dick.’ The linked article draws more differences than similarities as far as I can tell. Max Howell readily admits weakness before pride. He brags outwardly at the end of his message, which was a little distasteful, but it was after he widely incriminated the project he is bragging about. The linked article describes a very different type of…

I'm not assessing anything, just quoting himself.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#48
post #7

The real question is why people care so much about working for Google. If you're good, then you'll find success with or without Google, and if you're not good, then why would one complain about Google not hiring them when you don't even believe in your own ability. It's bizarre, really.

Simple - $$$ and prestige, that's why. If you play your cards right, Google is one of very few companies in the area that will make you absolutely ridiculous (for the level) offer in practically all cash, not some faint promise of payout some time in future. Then, once you have Google on your resume, it opens opportunity to at least start a conversation with almost any other company you wish to work for.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#49

Google used to hire the best and the brightest. While there are still a lot of smart people there, they have diluted that process in favor of other things and the quality of their workforce has slipped. The truth is that outside of search most of the other business units do not bring in nearly as much profit and are not as critical, but they need to look like they have an encore after search or the stock price will t…

Google Cloud is experiencing extremely rapid growth and is on its way to significance in Google’s bottom line.

YouTube, though mature, is still important for profit growth within the company.

There is undoubtedly duplication within the company, but I don’t know of a simple solution for it.

Max was passed over because of the engineering interview process at Google, which hasn’t changed for a decade. It is orthogonal to recent developments within the company.

I agree with Max, but I don’t think there’s anything more to read into it other than the fact that Google is extremely risk-averse to making bad hires. Part of this is due to an almost government-employee-level of process related to performance-related firings. An employee could likely be idle for a year before being fired.

So the hiring process is a rational response to a highly irrational retention policy.

Re: Max Howell's take on getting rejected by Google

#50
post #23
post #11

This is well written. The tweet was well written. And brew, well, yah, well written. Thanks Max for making the missing package manager for macOS. I use it, I taught my kids to use it and will probably keep using it for the next decade. Thanks! And Google? Who cares about google. It is Apple that should have hired Max. Years ago. For making their product better.

Missing? Macports was there before homebrew, is managed properly, and just works.

I disagree that macports “just works.” When homebrew came on the scene, I too thought, “why not macports?” After using homebrew, I realized that it is far easier to fix issues when they appear.
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