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Don't Hire That Developer

itmanagement.earthweb.com

41–50 of 69 posts

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#41
post #32

"but once you get let go as an employee it’s harder to find your next job because you aren’t always in that job-seeking mode like a contractor is" From an employee's point of view, the solution is simple. Always be in that job-seeking mode.

This is much more of a problem. You can't switch jobs every few months and expect people to continue hiring you. Contractor can and usually does take on new projects all the time. So as a contractor when I hear 'Can you do X for us', the answer is usually yes, if it comes within our expertise area, but as an employee, especially freshly hired, you can't respond to every job interview request unless you really really intend to leave.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#42
post #41
post #32

"but once you get let go as an employee it’s harder to find your next job because you aren’t always in that job-seeking mode like a contractor is" From an employee's point of view, the solution is simple. Always be in that job-seeking mode.

This is much more of a problem. You can't switch jobs every few months and expect people to continue hiring you. Contractor can and usually does take on new projects all the time. So as a contractor when I hear 'Can you do X for us', the answer is usually yes, if it comes within our expertise area, but as an employee, especially freshly hired, you can't respond to every job interview request unless you really really…

It really depends on the job you're leaving and the job you're going to. I often respond to interview requests, though I basically start the conversation with "I'm not really looking, but I don't mind talking to you." I'm not really an entry level employee, though.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#43
post #6

He got paid more and he has more expenses. No health coverage - he'll be lucky to find a group policy with an organization or professional association. No matching 401K, no tuition reimbursement, and on and on. It's not a valid comparison. Line up the employee's benefits and income against the contractor's expenses and income and then see where you come out. Then realize you've only looked at one piece of the equatio…

He said he was getting paid more than twice the amount his fried was. Are you saying that your benefits equal your salary? Highly doubtful unless your salary is artificially low (I assume you're a developer-type). Benefits aren't that high for contractors, usually it's just the healthcare that gets you. But even if you pay a non-group, family rate, it's only 15-20K a year which is chump change if you're charging $100…

20k per year? Wow. Even the most expensive family plans I've seen for family with pre-existing conditions was around $1100/month - $13k. I feel like I'm getting ripped off and we only pay around $300/month!

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#44
Do not get distracted by the 2X+ times money he makes. Everyone has made the point: no 401k, no health insurance.

What everyone seems to forget is you also have to pay a 15% self-employment tax at the end of the year out of your pocket because you do not have a W-2. The tax liability is higher as well.

So not only do you have to get independent insurance (which is very expensive), you have no 401k or match and probably have to manage your own Roth, you have increased tax liability and pretty much no control to push back.

Now, I'm not saying you should be an employee vs. contractor - there's benefits and downsides to both. But saying that a contractor makes even 90k when an employee makes 45k isn't really saying much.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#45
post #40

The OP claims that employers don’t value the institutional knowledge that is built up by employeees. I can refute this from my direct experience, which, as I understand, is not atypical for a developer working at a startup. I worked for five years for MetaCarta, which sold geographic search technology, primarily to government agencies and oil companies. In April we were aquired by Nokia, which runs its own search eng…

Some companies do, some don't. Glad you were in a camp that does. I've known people who were at companies which didn't value that knowledge and would just cut cut cut.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#46
post #44

Do not get distracted by the 2X+ times money he makes. Everyone has made the point: no 401k, no health insurance. What everyone seems to forget is you also have to pay a 15% self-employment tax at the end of the year out of your pocket because you do not have a W-2. The tax liability is higher as well. So not only do you have to get independent insurance (which is very expensive), you have no 401k or match and probab…

It's not that much of an increase.

In the US, you're already paying half that 15% anyway. You pay the additional half being self-employed, but it's also a deductible expense.

The biggest adjustment people need to make is keeping track of the financial aspect in general. It's not that hard, but you need to keep an eye on it. Make estimated tax payments quarterly, don't spend more than you make, keep extra money in reserve, etc.

Also, as I wrote elsewhere, I'm paying $300/month for health insurance for my wife and I. That's close to what was being deducted for my group plan when I was employed (it's a bit more, but not that much more). Yes, we're fortunate as we're both in decent health, but we've also chosen a moderately high deductible plan, which keeps the premiums lower (though they still keep going up insanely every year).

I've not done it yet, but as a self-employed person, you can set up a SEP-IRA (I think that's it) and some people manage to sock away much more in a SEP than is allowed in traditional Roths or 401Ks. If you've got it and can save it, that's decent deal.

I will say $90k as self-employed vs $45k employed is a pretty big difference, even factoring in the tax/benefits diffs. But I don't normally see that much of a difference in skill levels and income. SR devs I know contracting may be making $120-$150k, but as an employee might only be around $90-$100k. That's a difference, but not a 100% diff.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#47
> If management builds a network of contractors, who are the best in the business, you bring on these true professionals who have one purpose – to get the job done. They will do it well because they want more work and a good reference.

Not necessarily true. A contractor's incentive is to work as much as possible, and often she can find ways to increase the amount of work necessary.

An extreme example is that of Oracle consultants; I know several tales of the one Oracle consultant being the foot in the door to a whole team of Oracle consultants who get management's ear and tell them what they need.

I'm not saying all consultants do this; clearly not. However, the article makes it seem as if contractors' incentives are more closely aligned to the company's than they are.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#48
I'm surprised no one has said this: this is illegal in most of the US (definitely in CA). Contractors cannot do the same job as employees. It is skirting the labor by doing this, and circumventing employment taxes.

In the economic hard times, many states (WA, CA, MA) are going after companies that do this. Yes, auditing and fines.

You might think they won't find you. Well, here's how they will: contractor Joe has been working for you for 3 years. You decide you don't want him anymore (for a variety of reasons). He files for unemployment, even though he's not supposed to. He figures, hey, I'm an employee so I deserve it. In CA, the EDD will use this red flag to audit, likely find that Joe was an employee, fine the company and give Joe his unemployment insurance.

I'm not passing judgement here, just stating the facts.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#49
post #48

I'm surprised no one has said this: this is illegal in most of the US (definitely in CA). Contractors cannot do the same job as employees. It is skirting the labor by doing this, and circumventing employment taxes. In the economic hard times, many states (WA, CA, MA) are going after companies that do this. Yes, auditing and fines. You might think they won't find you. Well, here's how they will: contractor Joe has bee…

It's obviously not illegal to hire contractors to work on a specific projects.

The scheme you're suggesting where an employer hires people and calls them "independent contractors" to dodge taxes is not at all what's being discussed in the article.

Re: Don't Hire That Developer

#50
post #44

Do not get distracted by the 2X+ times money he makes. Everyone has made the point: no 401k, no health insurance. What everyone seems to forget is you also have to pay a 15% self-employment tax at the end of the year out of your pocket because you do not have a W-2. The tax liability is higher as well. So not only do you have to get independent insurance (which is very expensive), you have no 401k or match and probab…

Good points for anyone if they're weighing the fulltime gig vs. contracting vs. consulting. However

1. The "Self Employment Tax" (in other words, FICA and Medicare) is closer to 7.5% extra for the self-employed. When you're an employee you pay 7.5% of this, and your employer matches that. When you're self employed you pay the entire thing.

2. The FICA and medicare tax can be avoided if you're contracting through a third party agency (and being paid W2 via that agency). This has its own set of tradeoffs and rewards, but is another option worth considering.

3. Remember that the 401k match has to vest, meaning that 4% match is closer to 1.6% if you hold the job for only two years. (on the flip side, that 1.6% is pre-tax)

The matching can also be a temporary benefit if your smaller company gets bought out by a larger one.

4. Paying your own health insurance is a burden, but it's a burden with a fixed monthly cost. It's worth investigating self-insurance options and doing a straight up dollars to dollars comparison.

Consulting and contracting aren't for everyone, but if there's parts of full-time employment that frustrate you it's definitely a route worth considering.

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