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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#181

Post by JohnBooty »

macintux wrote: post #167
JohnBooty wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their goals are less outwardly evil than 1990s-era Microsoft, and that makes me think they have a much better chance at succeeding.

I don't know how "understand everything there is to know about everyone" is substantially less evil, especially when entirely avoiding Google is effectively impossible.

I should have picked a better word! "Outwardly" probably wasn't the right word there. Google is less... bald-facedly evil, perhaps? Less overtly evil?

Microsoft's hardline "screw the open web, and buy a Windows and Office license every n years while we ensure we have no competitors by any means necessary" modus operandi in the 1990s was just so blatantly unfriendly.

Google's course is more... stealthy.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#182

Post by connorelsea »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #176
mreid wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this article Service Workers is on by default in the latest Safari Tech Preview: https://9to5mac.com/2017/12/20/safari-preview-46-service-wor...

Yah, I keep tabs on that stuff. But most of my clients actually use Apple hardware for a few years now, and even if this update goes out tomorrow, and all iOS 11 users get it. iOS 10 users and below are out in the cold, and that accounts for 99% of my users. And you know what it's like trying to use a feature even when 70% of users can take advantage of it, it's still a no-go. So Apple totally blew it on this one. MS…

Apple has unusually high adoption (compared to Android) for new versions of their OS, I am not too worried. You can ship a service worker and it will not degrade the experience for users on older browsers.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#183

Post by calibration263 »

seanp2k2 wrote: post #161
stephenr wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me how Safari or Apple in general works against consumer privacy protection? This is yet again a too-simplistic view of things that seems very common with Americans. Some big companies do unethical things, and you translate that to "all big companies hate consumers and want to eat their children"

Related: “””In the recent history of management ideas, few have had a more profound — or pernicious — effect than the one that says corporations should be run in a manner that “maximizes shareholder value.”””” https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/09/09/how-t...

Also related, Tim Cook in a shareholder meeting after a proposal to remove environmental policies/focus: "We do things because they are right and just and that is who we are. That’s who we are as a company. I don’t…when I think about human rights, I don’t think about an ROI. When I think about making our products accessible for the people that can’t see or to help a kid with autism, I don’t think about a bloody ROI, and by the same token, I don’t think about helping our environment from an ROI point of view. ... If you only want me to make things, make decisions that have a clear ROI, then you should get out of the stock"

http://mashable.com/2014/02/28/apple-ceo-tim-cook-climate-ch...

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#184

Post by zeep »

kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

I had the option disabled before they started pushing the Mr.Robot thingy ("Allow Firefox Developer Edition to send technical and interaction data to Mozilla")... You pretty much always had to disable a few things when you installed Firefox to preserve as much privacy as possible. I wish that they would change the defaults, but I will still be using Firefox for now.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#185

Post by zbentley »

Unpopular opinion: valuing compatibility and standards compliance as engineering/design principles is orthogonal to making your website play with obscure (e.g. Dillo, old Opera) or pointless (e.g. old IE when you're making a website whose money is overwhelmingly likely to come from technically savvy, younger, first-world users) browsers.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#186

Post by muraiki »

TheCoreh wrote: post #45
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

The Mr. Robot thing was not "malware". It was an easter egg, just like about:mozilla. You may say it was poor taste on Mozilla's part, since it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in with a TV show, and I would probably agree with you. But it did not damage anyone's computer, compromise any data or do anything that could put it on the "Malware" category. Something similar that noone has complained about are th…

Note that the advertisement was for a TV show _owned by a company that helped destroy net neutrality_: Comcast. How am I supposed to "Join Mozilla in defending it" (from mozilla.org) when they are going to work for their own enemies?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#187

Post by joshuamorton »

jklinger410 wrote: post #64
joshuamorton wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google Hangouts for one! I believe this now works on FF, according to an HN post yesterday. >If you don't like the standards, advocate for new ones! I think the problem with this is it means that I can't provide something useful until the standards body updates, which could be a cadence of years. In that timeframe, a competitor will break the standard.

Hangouts calls didn't work for me today on FF. Possibly fixed on beta channel? This would really help me switch.

I think so: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15972967

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#188

Post by mark-r »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #42

Chrome just screwed the pooch, at least for me... blocking .dev domains ended my use. I'm not going to setup ssl on all my development environments for all the sites I have. I'll just dev in firefox, and move to firefox completely.

According to this recent post Google is in charge of the master list that all the other browsers use. Expect the .dev domains to stop working on those other browsers shortly.

https://medium.engineering/use-a-dev-domain-not-anymore-9521...

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#189

Post by bwat49 »

trendia wrote: post #32
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't just screw up once . They've screwed up many times over the years with many projects and attempts that run counter to the core values that Mozilla claims to uphold. Bryan Lunduke articulated this very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMALm1VthGY At this point Mozilla has to prove to us that they are worthy of our usage

Lest we forget: A third party company (funded by venture capital) created something called "Pocket", which allowed you to save any article you were reading to their service. Pocket had an extension that you could choose to download & enable on your Firefox browser. For apparently no reason at all, in June 2015, Mozilla integrated the proprietary Pocket into their open source browser, not just as an optional extension…

> The only way to disable Pocket was to go into "about:config"

All you had to do was remove it from the toolbar. Pocket is/was lazily loaded, it doesn't do anything if you're not using it.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#190

Post by foobarz »

c3534l wrote: post #119
SirensOfTitan wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve found a lot of people are quite naively idealistic around browser development. The rendering, JS engines in Firefox and Chrome are state-of-the-art and take small armies to build and maintain. Mozilla has to strike a balance between revenue seeking and consumer protection seeking behavior that I would imagine is quite difficult to maintain. Lots of people here additionally are up in arms their incredibly specifi…

> revenue seeking Then what the hell did I donate money to them for? I thought their whole thing was they were for "people, not profit." I don't want my technology to make money off of me in any way I'm not aware of.

Besides, it looks like the amount of cash that Mozilla got for stuff like Pocket or Mr Robot is tiny compared to their other sources of revenue. It doesn't seem something worth to taint their brandname and ethos for.

If you rule out Firefox, there's hardly any viable option for a modern, feature-complete and freedom-respecting browser. Chromium is OK, but those suspicious blobs don't look very appealing.

For me the most shocking part is that the FSF has a Firefox ESR fork, IceCat, which is hardly maintained and goes 2 versions behind mainline. They don't even bother patching CVEs...

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