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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#141

Post by The-Compiler »

dijit wrote: post #48

I can't agree with the title more. I use a rather obscure browser full time (qutebrowser) and they use Qt native bindings. Due to compatibility issues Qt has _two_ backends for rendering HTML content. One is based on webkit (qt-webkit), the other (unintuitively called qt-webengine) is actually chrome underneath. Why chrome? because the web is now owned by chrome. Before qutebrowser I was a heavy firefox user, but I a…

Note that Qt officially only has one backend, QtWebEngine, which is QtWebKit's successor.

However, it's more or less one guy (annulen) keeping QtWebKit alive as a hobby. So far that's worked surprisingly well, though.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#142

Post by pcwalton »

hungerstrike wrote: post #91
WorldMaker wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is not Chromium, however. Just because there is a nougaty open source center doesn't mean that Chrome is entirely free from proprietary software worries and worries about Google's commercial interests infringing upon user interests/greater web interests. Additionally, Chromium isn't WebKit either. Blink forked from WebKit some time back and the fork continues to diverge, with WebKit and Blink disagreeing on so…

Yes thank you, I understand all of that - it's very well known among web developers. None of it changes my argument: The majority of the functionality that we care about in our web browsers comes from an open source library.

> The majority of the functionality that we care about in our web browsers comes from an open source library.

WebKit and Blink are not "an" open source library. They are two open source libraries (and, in the case of Blink, more of a tightly-coupled component of Chromium than a library).

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#143

Post by seanp2k2 »

calcifer wrote: post #73
yarrel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That isn't correct. Try the new mobile Firefox. Buying Pocket signalled that if you can take the right Mozillan to lunch, you can get an early exit. That did not solve the problem. It's still impossible to remove Pocket.

I think you misunderstood me. The Pocket integration in Firefox does literally nothing (not even a single network request) if you don't actively try to use it. So by "remove Pocket" or "disable Pocket" all you really mean is "hide the icon" because there really is no difference.

I get it, but the code is still there. What if Apache httpd came with a commercial module that was disabled by default but bundled with the base package? It’s not THAT bad compared to what some software companies do, but...why do it at all? Is Mozilla getting paid, similar to using !Google as the default search engine? If so, it’s more understandable. If not, what is the justification for not just making it a regular add-on?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#144

Post by Eupolemos »

shmerl wrote: post #98
Eupolemos wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, it is the opposite for me. Works fine in both, but in Chrome - if I open developer tools - I get 19 warnings and 1 error. None in FF.

For example, their integration with Paypal is completely broken in Firefox.

That's bad...

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#145

Post by JohnBooty »

optimuspaul wrote: post #121
JohnBooty wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is the new IE. Chrome ships new features fast, and some of them are very cool. Because of course! "Embrace, extend, extinguish" doesn't work unless the "extend" part is full of shiny, delicious candy. And platform makers can make lots and lots of shiny candy when freed from pesky things like standards. It's hard to believe we're having this discussion again. Did we learn nothing from Internet Explorer 6? IE6 d…

I mostly agree. Chrome worries me for a lot of reasons and I don't trust google at all.

Their goals are less outwardly evil than 1990s-era Microsoft, and that makes me think they have a much better chance at succeeding.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#146

Post by kuschku »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #10
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

No and I think your opinion is harmful. IE literally refused to implement standards, rendered broken dom elements, allowed for proprietary native extensions and had many different apis for them. They had 90% of the market share and no other viable platforms. This meant developers built things which exploited these broken features causing huge compatibility issues when they aren’t (every other browser). A simple lack…

> IE literally refused to implement standards

Chrome doesn’t implement asm.js (EDIT: I had previously written WebAssembly, but that was a typo), concurrent JS, or autocomplete=off, or the GeoLocation API via HTTP, etc.

> allowed for proprietary native extensions and had many different apis

NaCl, PNaCl. Try running http://earth.google.com/ in a browser other than Chrome. Or the Google Hangouts Video Chat.

> They had 90% of the market share and no other viable platforms

Chrome has reached > 67% of the global market

> This meant developers built things which exploited these broken features causing huge compatibility issues when they aren’t (every other browser).

See above mentioned Google Earth, Google Hangouts, the early releases of Google Inbox, Google Allo, and WhatsApp Web, as well as the early releases of Signal Web.

> It’s not as bad as the IE situation yet

See above why it is just as bad as the IE situation.

Oh, and "IE was preinstalled" – Chrome runs malicious, misleading advertisements everywhere to get users to install Chrome, and when that wasn’t enough, they started paying companies to secretly install Chrome with their installer (same as what the Ask Toolbar, or BonzaiBuddy did – except, now it’s Google offering 30 million EUR to VLC to include it, and that project denying it and publishing that info).

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#147

Post by kuschku »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #58
gremlinsinc wrote: post #42

Chrome just screwed the pooch, at least for me... blocking .dev domains ended my use. I'm not going to setup ssl on all my development environments for all the sites I have. I'll just dev in firefox, and move to firefox completely.

Any particular reason you think Firefox won't also implement Google's HSTS preloads for .dev? Google owns that TLD, so I don't see why any browser which supports HSTS preloads would choose to ignore that particular pin, especially given that a move towards universal deployment of HTTPS is generally regarded as a good thing by browser developers and security experts.

> Google owns that TLD

That’s the issue, and the part that should never have happened.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#148

Post by badrequest »

trendia wrote: post #32
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't just screw up once . They've screwed up many times over the years with many projects and attempts that run counter to the core values that Mozilla claims to uphold. Bryan Lunduke articulated this very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMALm1VthGY At this point Mozilla has to prove to us that they are worthy of our usage

Lest we forget: A third party company (funded by venture capital) created something called "Pocket", which allowed you to save any article you were reading to their service. Pocket had an extension that you could choose to download & enable on your Firefox browser. For apparently no reason at all, in June 2015, Mozilla integrated the proprietary Pocket into their open source browser, not just as an optional extension…

> For apparently no reason at all

Mozilla acquired Pocket in February: https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/02/27/mozilla-acquires-po...

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#149

Post by paulirish »

Arcsech wrote: post #118
JohnBooty wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome is the new IE. Chrome ships new features fast, and some of them are very cool. Because of course! "Embrace, extend, extinguish" doesn't work unless the "extend" part is full of shiny, delicious candy. And platform makers can make lots and lots of shiny candy when freed from pesky things like standards. It's hard to believe we're having this discussion again. Did we learn nothing from Internet Explorer 6? IE6 d…

Chrome is 100% the IE. They blatantly ignore standards, the most obvious of which is their treatment of autocomplete=off in forms[1]. They broke the ability to disable autocomplete, and since then have been intentionally breaking workarounds people find to actually turn off autocomplete. This has been a major pain in the butt at work. Before you yell at me about password managers or whatever, we don't use this on our…

FWIW, the HTML spec says that the autocomplete=off means either 1) the input shouldn't be autofilled or 2) the input is for sensitive information. It doesn't require handling it only as the first case.

https://html.spec.whatwg.org/multipage/form-control-infrastr...

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