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Chrome is Not the Standard

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Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#51

Post by Ajedi32 »

TheCoreh wrote: post #45
kevmo wrote: post #4

I know they screwed up recently with the Mr. Robot malware, but I think it's really important for developers to get behind Firefox again. As the American government fails to provide any sort of check on its behemoth corporations (Apple, Google, and Microsoft) and to protect consumer privacy, Firefox is basically the last contender for real consumer protection standing.

The Mr. Robot thing was not "malware". It was an easter egg, just like about:mozilla. You may say it was poor taste on Mozilla's part, since it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in with a TV show, and I would probably agree with you. But it did not damage anyone's computer, compromise any data or do anything that could put it on the "Malware" category. Something similar that noone has complained about are th…

> it was essentially a paid-for promotional tie-in

From what I recall, it wasn't paid-for either.

> we developed an unpaid collaboration to engage our users and viewers of the show in a new way

Source: https://blog.mozilla.org/firefox/update-looking-glass-add/

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#52

Post by TAForObvReasons »

yoavm wrote: post #36
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They didn't just screw up once . They've screwed up many times over the years with many projects and attempts that run counter to the core values that Mozilla claims to uphold. Bryan Lunduke articulated this very well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMALm1VthGY At this point Mozilla has to prove to us that they are worthy of our usage

I don't really understand this attitude. Mozilla doesn't need to be everything I ever wanted from a browser in order to get my support. It only needs to be better than Google. Are all these people sticking with Chrome because Mozilla is not holding up to its values really think Google is better at taking care of our freedom?!

Chrome doesn't magically revert privacy or search engine settings in updates, but Firefox apparently does. To quote from https://drewdevault.com/2017/12/16/Firefox-is-on-a-slippery-... :

> Not only are these experiments enabled by default, but updates have been known to re-enable it if you turn it off.

Chrome has some troubling defaults but Google never decided to flip the default search engine or turn on any phone-home feature once it has been turned off. Even though they had/have the power to do so, they know people won't trust Chrome if they ever tried to do that. In my book that's more trustworthy than a vendor that decides to use updates to surreptitiously enable features that users disabled.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#53

Post by slantyyz »

jarjoura wrote: post #27
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

Yet, what Safari is, is competition. Also let's not forget that it gave the world WebKit and broke us free from the trap that was Flash.

>> Also let's not forget that it gave the world WebKit

And let's not forget that WebKit started as a fork of KHTML and KJS.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#54

Post by octalmage »

rubyn00bie wrote: post #10
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

No and I think your opinion is harmful. IE literally refused to implement standards, rendered broken dom elements, allowed for proprietary native extensions and had many different apis for them. They had 90% of the market share and no other viable platforms. This meant developers built things which exploited these broken features causing huge compatibility issues when they aren’t (every other browser). A simple lack…

Apple is doing similar stuff by refusing to implement the payment request API and instead implementing their proprietary Apple Pay API. So you can use one API to target Chrome and Firefox and another for Safari. This is starting to sound a bit like IE. They were invited to join the working group for Payment Request and decided not to take part.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#55

Post by kitsunesoba »

elsurudo wrote: post #7
appdrag wrote: post #3

"Safari ships new features on a much slower cadence, but they’re usually solid and always perform incredibly well." I really don't agree at all with this, Safari is the new Internet explorer ... https://www.safari-is-the-new-ie.com/

Ehh, I use Safari as my main browser (it feels more "native" than Chrome & FF, has seemingly lower CPU usage than Chrome, and is WAY better for the battery), and I rarely suffer for it. Once in a while there is a site that does something fancy that requires Chrome, but it is rare.

Precisely this. It’s not that the WebKit/Safari team doesn’t implement new features/standards (they usually do), it’s just on a different schedule.

I don’t know anybody on the Safari team but I suspect that they prioritize very differently than the Chrome team does. One is all about impressing web developers with the latest and greatest where the other is more interested in having resource efficient implementations.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#58

Post by Ajedi32 »

gremlinsinc wrote: post #42

Chrome just screwed the pooch, at least for me... blocking .dev domains ended my use. I'm not going to setup ssl on all my development environments for all the sites I have. I'll just dev in firefox, and move to firefox completely.

Any particular reason you think Firefox won't also implement Google's HSTS preloads for .dev?

Google owns that TLD, so I don't see why any browser which supports HSTS preloads would choose to ignore that particular pin, especially given that a move towards universal deployment of HTTPS is generally regarded as a good thing by browser developers and security experts.

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#59

Post by ori_b »

ebbv wrote: post #25
cakeface wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes feel like Chrome is the new Internet Explorer too! There have been a number of GSuite features from Google that don't work on Firefox. Google Hangouts for one! Also on that list was U2F auth and some others. Here we have Google products that only work on the Google browser. What does that sound like? Maybe Microsoft and all their ActiveX IE shenanigans in the past! The moral of the story, which I think th…

Hangouts uses a plugin. It's not using web standards. So using it as an example of breaking standards is really silly.

Ah. You mean like ActiveX?

Re: Chrome is Not the Standard

#60

Post by smoyer »

I like Chrome but lately I've spent almost all my time in Firefox Developer Edition. When I use Chrome it's to verify that it behaves the same way on more than one Javascript engine.
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