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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#411

Post by sobani »

kchoudhu wrote: post #368
ako wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It creates a healthier society in long run if people cannot spend money they don't have. Some goes for the uber decision, I think it's healthier for the job market and society in general when this kind of exploitation of employees is not possible. User experience of debit cards is just fine, I don't carry any cash, and typing a pin code is just as fast as singing your signature. And currently in the Netherlands debit…

> It creates a healthier society in long run if people cannot spend money they don't have Ok, now explain this: https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-debt.htm Denmark, Holland and Norway are nobody's idea of unhealthy societies -- and households there have well over double the debt load of US households.

As @farrisbris mentioned, this is mortgage based debt (in the Netherlands).

All debt is tracked, including the 'free' phone you get with your subscription. You can't go over a limit based on your income.

Also a large difference with for example the US is that in the Netherlands you don't need a down payment when buying a home. And until recently you could include the transfer tax, realtor, etc in the mortgage. All which make it easier to buy a home and thereby driving up the debt of a household.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#412

Post by sfifs »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #385
odiroot wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm now in China. We, in Western Europe, are really decades behind them in mobile payments. This is just so much more convenient. And yes, it's probably a privacy nightmare, I agree. But at least you can make this choice in here.

How is getting your phone out and fumbling with a QR scanner more convenient than tapping your card against a RF surface?

It's convenient because everyone accepts it and the transaction charges appear to be half of credit card fees (or zero if the merchant uses Tencent's escrow system). When I travel to China, as a foreigner, I'm virtually the only one carrying any cash. None of the locals carry meaningful amounts of cash any more.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#413

Post by kenoph »

kodablah wrote: post #393
Dylan16807 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what noticeable burden there is here, especially compared to the actual risk of all this data.

Article 83, paragraph 5 says I can be fined 20 mil EUR (or 4% of revenue, whichever is greater...so 20 mil would be the number for me). You might say, "well don't break the law" (like that's an excuse for punishments some types of companies can afford and others can't) or "no, that's only for big companies" (like it's ok to rely on subjective enforcement). I'd rather just not risk going bankrupt or prevent myself fro…

I get your point, but say you were selling food instead of services. It's on you to make sure that what you are importing doesn't break any rule (GMO, other stuff, etc...).

I think it's fair. You shouldn't break the law. That regulation may be overkill in terms of punishment, but that doesn't mean that the regulation itself is wrong. Laws are imperfect. Regulations exist in every industry and there's a reason for that. Over regulating is a burden for a business, but under regulating is bad for customers (or the environment, or whatever).

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#414

Post by Feniks »

RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

Yeah lobbyists haven't entirely cracked EU parliament yet. Its made up of people from 27 countries from god knows how many different parties. Difficult to bribe efficiently.

The US is a lot easier, a two party system is heaven for corruption.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#415

Post by Feniks »

sfifs wrote: post #412
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is getting your phone out and fumbling with a QR scanner more convenient than tapping your card against a RF surface?

It's convenient because everyone accepts it and the transaction charges appear to be half of credit card fees (or zero if the merchant uses Tencent's escrow system). When I travel to China, as a foreigner, I'm virtually the only one carrying any cash. None of the locals carry meaningful amounts of cash any more.

Well some European countries don't have any transaction fees at all when using a debit card.

Those mobile pay systems DO.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#416

Post by rmc »

rconti wrote: post #256
tomcooks wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cookie popup is terrible, I agree. Some pros: Being able to force social networks to provide me with a physical copy of my data is alone a reason to get an EU citizenship. I don't even use the social networks, i just demand my data every 3 months to FB, Tinder and Linkedin to punish them for being so aggressive in their spamming and tracking. Being safe from throttling, censorship and all the nice stuff that US I…

I'm an EU citizen and was not aware of this "demand for data" thing. What does physical copy mean? Are they going to send me 20 boxes full of papers?

You are allowed to get a request of all personal data that someone/some company has one you. So you can contact Facebook and say "Please give me a copy of all the data you hold on me" and they have to give it to you. When Max Schrems did they first, Facebook did send a CD with a ~1,000 page PDF "print out". It garnered some media attention since it shows how much they do collect on people./

The maximum they can charge is set in law and is about €5.

More details for Facebook here: http://europe-v-facebook.org/EN/Get_your_Data_/get_your_data...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#417

Post by rmc »

jamiequint wrote: post #180
RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

Isn't your best choice when it comes to privacy to choose which services to use and which ones not to use, rather than relying on your government dictate rules they don't fully understand to companies which may put their entire business at risk? In other words, in terms of things you care about absolute data privacy may be #1 on your list, others may be willing to accept less privacy for an internet that can continue…

You're suggesting a free market approach. "Just don't use the service if you don't like the terms". That's fine. But there should be limitations on what people can sign away. You cannot agree to work for below minimum wage, and you cannot sell yourself into slavery, and you cannot sign away your personal data rights.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#418

Post by rmc »

DannyBee wrote: post #146
theptip wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article says, under GDPR (coming in mid-2018) they will be able to fine 4% of global revenue, or 20m EUR, whichever is larger [1]. I'm not certain that this particular case is covered by the GDPR, but if it is, then that will compel action. If Facebook declines to pay these fines, then presumably their execs would be arrested if they ever travelled anywhere in the EU. While FB can claim that it “is only subjec…

Or you'll see FB/others decide the EU isn't worth it over time. It's interesting how many people here believe that there is no other possibility other than "we get what we want to happen". Your faith is, IMHO, misplaced. There are many cases in history where other companies decided it wasn't worth the cost of doing business in certain countries. Or they just successfully coopted the governments!

Yes, it's possible that FB will abandon the EU market, but the EU is large, and I'm sure they get a lot of revenue from EU adverts.

If they turn off access for the EU, then many people will try to produce a new social network that can play by EU rules. You already know the features that are needed, just look at what FB does now. Social networks are very suspectible to the network effect. This/these new companies will be able to operate in the USA and EU, whereas facebook chooses to avoid EU. So what happens when there is another social network that's about as big as Facebook? Is that a good move for FB?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#419

Post by rmc »

theptip wrote: post #125
endisukaj wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not much they can do against tech behemoths based in the US though. They can stop them from gathering EU citizen data, or at least approve laws that try to stop them but who knows what is really happening behind the scenes.

As the article says, under GDPR (coming in mid-2018) they will be able to fine 4% of global revenue, or 20m EUR, whichever is larger [1]. I'm not certain that this particular case is covered by the GDPR, but if it is, then that will compel action. If Facebook declines to pay these fines, then presumably their execs would be arrested if they ever travelled anywhere in the EU. While FB can claim that it “is only subjec…

> If Facebook declines to pay these fines, then presumably their execs would be arrested if they ever travelled anywhere in the EU.

Facebook Ireland Ltd is a company in Ireland (an EU member). Every FB user outside the US & Canada has a legal agreement with them. I don't know who you pay when an EU entity buys adverts on FB, but if it's to FB Ireland Ltd, then there's the money you take. FB also has offices all over the EU. That's the property you sieze and charge.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#420

Post by lovich »

pgeorgi wrote: post #407
def_true_false wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering how widespread accepting cash only is, you'll end up paying more for ATM withdrawals than you save on the lower merchant fees (that is, if the merchant even passes those onto you). Unless you want to carry hundreds in cash on you. I've also noticed that not many people pay contactless, even when the terminals support it... and the cashiers tend to assume that the card is not contactless for some reason.

ATM withdrawal typically is free (at the same banking group). The merchant fees are part of the total cost, so lower fees provide a competitive edge to the merchant. (the listed price also contains VAT, so you pay what's on the sticker, not like in the US) Aldi (a discount grocery chain) didn't accept _any_ cards for a long time to avoid these extra costs. In short: the German market situation is rigged in favor of c…

Why kind of world has people saying cash is rigged to be cheaper. It's the medium of exchange, everything else is on top of it. Of course it costs more!
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