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Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

eand.co

131–140 of 202 posts

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#131
post #82

Why don't Europeans understand how little we care what they think? Their rights have been systematically eroded and their countries stolen right out from underneath them. That condescending, undeserved attitude of faux superiority means absolutely nothing to red-blooded Americans. They can keep their baguettes, I'll be just fine with my 30.06 and my F-250.

I absolutely like how comments like this one confirm most of this article.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#132
Okay, I travel a lot between the US and Europe (primarily Berlin, Frankfurt and London) and also between the US and Asia (primarily Japan, India and Bangkok). I have had my choice in where to live, and I would live in the USA every time.

American exceptionalism isn't a myth, it's a thing. But it has both positive and negative side effects. The positive side effects are a big reason why America still dominates the computer science world - empowering individuals results in innovation, freedom to experiment, freedom to fail (this in particular is lacking in the rest of the world) and freedom to chart your own path. Obviously, this is a range, it's not a binary switch, but over and over, I consistantly see American engineers take risks and try things that their foreign counterparts don't often do. Of course, as with everything, individuals differ, but opportunity exists here. This matters - Americans routinely identify as happier, less prone to suicide, and have higher productivity.

The second factor that this author seems blind to is that the rest of the world has become more and more American - not just western, but American. This is often sad, the difference between walking down Sukhumvit in Bangkok even five years ago - with the tuk-tuks and ethnic celebrations and baht's in the pocket - versus listening to rap, catching a uber from the airport, and using your US credit card is pronounced. But in general, Americanization (under the name globalization) has resulted world wide in a world that is kinder, more inclusive, more humane, less people dying of war & starvation etc. There is a result of the post-war strategy that American embraced and led the world on (and is now turning it's back on with Trump). The fact that Europe can focus on it's own prosperity and not the never-ending regional conflicts is built on Winston Churchill's call for "A united states of Europe" and the security of NATO.

Now are there things that should be much better then they are? Obviously yes. Health care is a obvious one. But again, that also ignores the fact that Americans are basically fronting the R&D cost for almost all of the world right now. We have to improve this. We have to improve income disparity, but without going through the devesation that collectivist systems can impose. We have to relearn how to compromise, and return to the first principles of democracy. But this article is mostly the typical European-exceptionalism ;-)

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#133
post #7

This is the ultimate question -- which is superior: individualism or collectivism? Personally I think collectivism is far superior -- however the forces that be want people to believe individualism is superior, especially in America. This results in people, individuals, denying their fellow peers access to things. As for the question the title poses, there's no answer, because it depends on who you ask. I don't think…

Considering the entire premise of the founding of the US was based on individual liberty, and throwing the yoke of power off from the centralized power of a monarchy across the ocean, I don't see why we need to be convinced. Why does the whole world need to be homogeneous? Why can't some places on the earth (with ~7B people) value individualism and some value collectivism. Maybe neither one is superior, just differen…

Individuals don't have a choice of where they are born; neither do most people have a real choice of migrating to the other side of the ocean. If the thought even occurs to them. Cultural blindness is a thing, and especially troublesome in the case of American exceptionalism and general disinterest in other cultures.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#134

My understanding is that it's easier to get a culturally homogenous population to buy into economic collectivism, vs. a culturally diverse population. E.g. the migrant "problem" that the EU is dealing with--last I checked, most of Europe wasn't stumbling over themselves to provide social services to all of their recent arrivals...

I'm not sure how that's relevant. The US is remarkably homogeneous for its size

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#135
Another one of these, "Europe is sooooooo much better than the US." articles.

I love how he compares the some of the worst US cities to some the best European cities. All the while ignoring the issues those European cities are currently facing (mounting debt, exit from the European Union, mass immigration) while highlighting all the bad things in the US cities he cherry picks to prove his points.

I wonder if the author has ever been the Northwest. Has he ever been to Washington? Oregon, Idaho, or Colorado? I have and they're all amazing states with many, many cities with their own little cultures and laid back lifestyles. The scenery is second to none, the air clean, the people incredibly hospitable.

I won't dissect the entire article, but when you're cherry picking statistics to prove your points (most of which are subjective and not even factual) it's easy to say how much more awesome Europe is.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it has to do with how easy it is to think about. I really believe there are a lot of people on the right whose implicit preference is to pay $10000/yr for healthcare to a private entity rather than $5000/yr to the government. When I get a tax bill the numbers are right there in black, this is how much was stolen from me. When I get any other sort of bill how much was 'stolen' is a portion but I have no idea h…

One thing to consider is that it’s very unlikely America could actually cut half of all costs by simply going universal. We’d have to ration care and implement price controls. Who knows if that is even politically viable. And even we could reduce it by half, the only politically viable method of funding is a highly progressive tax. People on hacker news would likely pay 20k a year and the average person would pay 2,5…

>One thing to consider is that it’s very unlikely America could actually cut half of all costs by simply going universal.

It was just an example, but it's pretty clear that costs would be cut.

>We’d have to ration care and implement price controls. Who knows if that is even politically viable.

We already ration care, we just do it by how much money you have. Price controls? Pretty politically viable, just march some affected people up on stage. Hell you don't even need price controls, just make overseas drug importing legal. Right now we're a totally captive market, that's why they charge so much.

>And even we could reduce it by half, the only politically viable method of funding is a highly progressive tax.

Okay? Sounds fine to me.

>People on hacker news would likely pay 20k a year and the average person would pay 2,500 or less.

I mean that's how progressive taxes work and I don't have a problem with it, although your numbers are obviously pulled straight from your ass.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#137
post #4

They have no point of reference for comparison.

Indeed, and they travel more domestically than abroad [1]. There isn't enough difference between states to broad those horizons. [1] https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/countries-whose-citizens...

The U.S. is a huge country and most people have little desire to sit in a cattle-car (airplane) for 8-12 hours. A 12 hour drive to Florida is much more palatable for most people than a 12 hour plane ride to a country where they don't speak the language (typically.)

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#138
post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Collectivists just want to be left alone? How does that work?

It's pretty simple, they just go about their lives. How exactly do you imagine collectivists live? People in a collectivist culture or society aren't attached to each other by the belly; as long as their culture/society is functioning they probably would want to be left alone like any regular person, collectivist or not.

Yeah in fact, from my experience you're more likely to be harassed walking down the street in the USA where the poor are forced to take to the street as hawkers than in Germany where you can still carry some dignity.

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>universally loved by everyone Maybe a little strong on my part. Asked "would you scrap the NHS?" to randoms on the street i bet you would get a very strong no vote.

Is such a system sustainable though? Isn't England in a massive hole of debt? And if that debt comes due, what would happen to the quality of the NHS?

> Isn't England in a massive hole of debt?

The UK has a lower debt-to-GDP ratio than the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_de...

Their debt ratio is predicted to slightly lower by 2022, while ours is expected to continue to increase.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_future_gr...

Re: Why Don’t Americans Understand How Poor Their Lives Are?

#140
post #33
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Multiple studies have shown that our opinions count for nothing, and that lobbyists control legislation and policy. And yet Donald Trump was basically memed into office.

And? Like 2/5 of the people that voted for him regret it because he isn't doing what they thought he would. He campaigned for the common man, and is now fucking him over hardcore. I think this only provides evidence for my point.

Trump's election provides a counterexample to the claim that the opinions of voters count for nothing, otherwise we'd be looking at Hillary Clinton's second term or first after Mitt Romney.

Many of the promises Trump made were absurd, irrational and couldn't reasonably be delivered on, and Trump himself was the easiest candidate to read in recent American political history. Voters being unwilling to exercise their power judiciously isn't the same as them having no real power to exercise.

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