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Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

citylab.com

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Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#111

Post by merb »

Grumbledour wrote: post #99
laingc wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure about the explicit training, but drivers in Germany are generally pretty excellent when it comes to dealing with cyclists.

Ha! Good one! Maybe compared with other countries? But that doesn't stop them from ignoring your right of way, parking in the bike lane, pushing you to the side at red lights or pushing in front of you dangerously even when its not you who is blocking traffic, because obviously there is nothing worse than being stuck behind a cyclist. Not to pile on to much on the drivers, because other cyclists are also often terrib…

> because other cyclists are also often terrible in their behavior on the street

well yes. car drivers are bad. but cyclists, are too. in germany, freiburg the cyclists basically drive how they want. which means, they do not care for red light, they cross zebra's mounted on the bike (which is a no-go since stopping for a _fast_ bike is basically way harder than stopping for walking people), they turn left without noticing traffic behind them, etc.

this makes it hard to drive with cyclists. of course most car drivers also drive pretty recklessness.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#112

Post by Someone »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

If you have >2 children, chances are the oldest can ride his/her own bicycle (especially if the infrastructure provides lots of safety)

Also, see https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/tag/children/

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#113

Post by masklinn »

Improvotter wrote: post #96

I'm from around Ghent in Belgium and study in Ghent and last year the city introduced a plan where no cars except for taxis and some public transport is allowed inside of the city centre. It's absolutely awesome because Ghent is a student city and you can get anywhere in Ghent using the bike but you can also get anywhere by car by parking nearby in an underground parking lot and walking the rest of the way. But it ha…

Louvain-la-Neuve also has an interesting take on this. Like Ghent it's a student city but it's also a planned city, and was built as a "two-levels" city, buildings sit on top of a huge concrete "slab" and topside is completely car-free, with roads & parkings downside.

Not having to "burn" any surface on carspace makes the city pretty inherently walkable.

One issue is I don't remember the public parkings providing electric plugs for EC.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#114

Post by crummy »

ben_w wrote: post #3

While it would be great to see Berlin copy the UK cycling capital — Cambridge is brilliant in that regard — Berlin isn’t particularly bad. I’m looking for work in Berlin at the moment, and Berlin is less busy per square meter than any UK city I’ve been to (other than Ely, which shouldn’t count as a city). Berlin traffic isn’t perfect, but on the other hand it is also more lawful than UK traffic, and less intimidating…

(Off topic but we're hiring in Berlin at Sauce Labs - email me if you want to know more!)

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#115

Post by ndh2 »

kazinator wrote: post #58
sharpercoder wrote: post #4

I was in Valencia (Spain) a few weeks back. This city is one of the most ideal cities I have been to for cycling; flat, perfect climate, riverbed running right through the middle of the city, spacious roads and high density. One of the inhabitants told me they dedicated cycling lanes a year back or so. That was visible: They had painted bicycle lanes right over roads & pedestrian areas. I guess when the Valencian peo…

If the cycling commute is flat, it has to be long to get decent exercise, because you have to apply a flat-out effort and you cover a lot of ground. If my bike commute were flat, I'd prefer to be some 14 miles from work rather than the current 7. Or else I would have to run it (more often). To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.

If you want more exercise, don't run red lights. Not trying to accuse anyone, just saying. The stop-and-go makes it much more exhausting.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#116

Post by masklinn »

dirktheman wrote: post #84
kazinator wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the cycling commute is flat, it has to be long to get decent exercise, because you have to apply a flat-out effort and you cover a lot of ground. If my bike commute were flat, I'd prefer to be some 14 miles from work rather than the current 7. Or else I would have to run it (more often). To me, what would make an area ideal for cycling (if it has good roads and such) is: dry climate. No rain, no snow.

I'm Dutch. The Netherlands is one of the most bicycle-dense countries in the world, and we have a, well, less than ideal climate to say the least. Rain, wind or snow really isn't that much of an issue when you have the right outfit.

As the scandinavian saying goes, "there’s no such thing as bad weather, only bad clothes".

Of course it can be hard to know/find good clothes when you have not grown up in such a culture.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#117

Post by hawski »

paride5745 wrote: post #97

Cyclists need to be trained as well. I live in Berlin and too many times cyclists almost run me over and didn't even acknowledged the fact, just flipped the bird at me. I have never been in a dangerous situation with cars, just with cyclists.

I hate when cyclists don't yield to people going in or out of a tram or a bus. They mostly ring at you when you cross the bike lane from bus stop to the bus. Cars would stop in the same situation as this is sanctified. It happens from all the places next to Hauptbahnhof and it infuriates me, because there are far more passengers than cyclists. I know that is because cyclists want to maintain inertia, but it's just rude.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#118

Post by lagadu »

Xylakant wrote: post #107
Svip wrote: post #90

Another important point often missed in these discussions is training. If you take a driving licence in Denmark, a big part of the training is how to deal with bicyclists. I have also taken a bus driving licence in Denmark, and there it becomes an even bigger thing. Like counting bicyclists as you approach a junction you wish to turn right, placing the bus correctly, so you can see the bicyclists coming towards you i…

Training does not seem to help much. Here in Berlin, I regularly see Dutch and Danish coaches parked on cycle lanes in busy traffic, forcing cyclists to veer into traffic. Enforcement seems to be the key, and that’s sorely lacking here.

As someone who lives in Copenhagen: that's because the cycling lanes system in Berlin is pretty terrible and is set up opposite to how it's set up here, in regards to where the cycling lanes are. Having seen it I'd never try to use it myself whenever I go to Berlin. No offense, but the way people cycle there is also scary: here I can count 100% on the cyclists (myself included when cycling) to follow the rules and behave predictably like cars do, in Berlin it's chaos; stuff like respecting right of way like cars do, obeying traffic lights, not cycling in the wrong direction and dear god stay away from the sidewalks.

I've no problem with cyclists when driving here but holy hell whenever I drive anywhere else in Europe (haven't been in the Netherlands by car so I can't judge there, though it looked fine) the incredibly bad behaviours I constantly see legit make me angry at them.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#119

Post by novaRom »

SirLJ wrote: post #6

I hope they install a lot of showers...

Normally temperatures in south Germany (Stuttgart, Munich) are between +10 and +25 Celsius in summer and between 0 and +10 in winter. The climate is mild and humid without strong winds. There are much fewer sunny days in comparison with US, so we certainly do not sweat while cycling :)

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#120

Post by CurtMonash »

brute wrote: post #61
lobster_johnson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having wide streets where you can set side space for bicycle lanes also helps. After WW2, Berlin was in ruins, and the city was never built up to the density of many other European cities. The Soviets, in particular, were particularly fond of wide, open spaces. (The earlier Prussian kings also liked wide avenues they could march their soldiers through.) Berlin is definitely a great city to bike in.

The major factor here is Berlin's street width, which was chosen to be 22m by law in 1862 for fire safety reasons, much wider than other german cities. Consequently during WW2, Berlin proved to be a problem for allied incendiary bombs. At some point they were even building a to scale model city in the desert (Dugway Proving Ground) for testing various methods of igniting fire storms. > Berlin, however, would “prove m…

I never knew this.

And I heard plenty of stories about the Berlin air raids from my father.

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