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Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

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451–460 of 808 posts

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#451
post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I presume you wouldn't hire someone who expresses a strong distaste for your software stack, regardless of age (unless their job is specifically to replace it).

I was once hired for a C++ position _because_ I hated on C++ during the interview.

Feel like I have to share this hilarious fake interview with Stroustroup (creator of C++) here http://artlung.com/smorgasborg/Invention_of_Cplusplus.shtml

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a race to the bottom. You could pay more for better work that gets done more slowly (fewer hours as people have families, etc,) or you could pay less for worse work that gets done more quickly. Well, iOS11 needs to ship on its annual schedule, non-negotiable. And the SVP will really complain if I ask for more money this quarter. So, cheap it is. If a bridge falls down, it's really obvious and people die. If bill…

In my experience, worse work typically gets done a lot more slowly than good work.

I think it depends on the timescale. In the short term, a 'bad' hacky solution is usually quicker than a 'good' one, but it will likely slow you down over the medium to long term.

If the timing of that bad hacky solution being shipped is critical, then it's actually the perfect solution and the right work was done quickly, which is great. If it's not, and is rather the first piece of a new feature intended to last for a while, then the work on that feature as a whole may be slow as a result, so then it looks more like bad and slow work.

I think with experience comes the ability to choose the appropriate approach for the problem at hand, whereas inexperience will usually lead to the short term quickest easiest route being chosen every time by default.

Another subtlety is that, typically, more experienced people will actually deliver the 'good' solution faster, which results in a double win if that is indeed the correct course of action.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#453

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

Doesn't YC have a max age for founders? I imagine there is similar logic for their cutoff. Not saying it's valid, but last I checked (long ago) they had a max age. Disclosure: I am a bootstrapping old fart.

It does not, no. The average age is 29, and they've brought in some people in their 60s. https://www.ycombinator.com/faq/#q42

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#454
My colleague is a 64-years-old devops guy. He looks like 78, he sounds like 80, but his brain is working at full speed and his IT-knowledge is not only very current, but also backed by 35 years of experience. He is the most valuable guy in our team. Any company missing out on people like him is shooting itself in the foot.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#455

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

Have you been wondering why so many companies fail? They artificially limiting themselves with such things like not hiring people based on age.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#456
post #352
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So would it also be illegal to advertise your job positions in teen Vogue but NOT in AARP magazine? It doesn't seem much different in this case. Bit methods target young people.

No of course not. Anyone can buy either magazine. Those two examples are completely different. In the magazine case you are taking out an advertisement with no ability to discriminate. In the Facebook case there is a specific setting based on age to show job ads . Job seekers over the age of 40 are protected so this is discrimination against a protected class. The problem is not that young people were targeted, the p…

You say it like it is that simple to fix; they could ask for photo in the curriculum and just discard the few that looks old, -after targeting job ads on pages that are disproportionaly "liked" by the age range they want-

The only true way to solve this is to force by law to hire older people (e.g. 30% of your workforce must be over 40); otherwise all this proxies like trying to regulate third-party ads and else its just an endless cat-and-mouse game.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#457
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you, and this is a hard lesson to learn. But I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. Software should really only be measured by the value it provides. If a terribly buggy piece of poorly written code still saves hundreds of man hours a week, it's a win. (Unit tests be damned) If that big ball of mud that's using 20 year old technology still prints a billion dollars a year - that's a win. (Microservic…

This is what I call the Mediocre Mercenary Mentality, this idea that "as long as we can make money off of it, it's good enough". This mentality is the reason why sometimes -- but not always! -- my phone won't play music in my car until I restart the _car_. This mentality is why game development companies get away with charging full price for unfinished, bug-ridden games with crippled features and missing content. Thi…

You have been able to put to words the feeling that I have had for such a long time. Thanks.

I don't know if the world is getting a shittier place. But it surely is getting less reliable.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my experience, worse work typically gets done a lot more slowly than good work.

I don't think they mean slow development. Rather, overall rate - all other things equal, someone who insists on no more than a 40 hour week will accomplish less than someone willing to work 60-80 based on whatever metric you use (KLOC, story points, etc)

I've only ever heard one person ever mention KLOC's, and they were in their 60's nearly a decade ago. They were explaining how people were using it as a measurement of work done in the 80's, and what a terrible idea it was to measure throughput that way.

You're the second person. When was the last time you encountered anyone using KLOC's (per 1k lines of code) as a measurement of work done? Are they working on mainframe codebases?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If billions of computers become vulnerable to malicious actors and a few hundred or thousand people suffer dramatic personal damages, well that's a nice and quiet problem which will be quickly forgotten in the 24-hour news cycle. This. I do development coaching and training. I’m totally burned out because my job doesn’t matter. These companies don’t care. They hire me to “increase code quality” but that ends up being…

The topic of your rant is something that it took me forever to accept as a software engineer. Nobody cares about quality. Your method is refactored to be super-fast and have no branches? Nobody cares. Elegant, re-usable architecture? Nobody cares. You've optimized an inner loop in assembly and increased speed by 30%? Nobody cares. Made it to zero compiler warnings? Nobody cares. No known crashers left in the bug trac…

Lack of profit focus is definitely something I see in junior devs of the higher quality kind. It's important to sell any prospective improvement to management in a way that makes money. Quality people can't see won't make money, and even quality they can see will only make money if there's a competitive market.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#460

It doesn't make sense to me to discriminate against people with more experience. Can someone explain it to me? I have heard that companies like recent grads because they are (1) more malleable and (2) can be paid less. But neither of those reasons seem to me strong enough. I'm talking completely about the company's own interests. Let's address the first reason: malleability. A recent grad presumably will adopt the co…

Here's my experience with an elderly coder in his mid 50s. He was a decent delphi and .net coder, he was a decent human being, but he had health problems. Most of the week he had hospital appointments. He required nose surgery. His blood levels were low. He needed vitamin d and iron supplements and during our four month acquintance, he never got any better. He constantly forgot things and he feared his lack of iron h…

I hate to tell you this but you're looking in the mirror at your future self (and your peers) as coding isn't usually in most cases a healthy lifestyle choice.
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