Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists • Hacker News Board

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#11

Post by woodpanel » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:15 AM UTC

Well, hopefully by the time this plan is realized Berlin cyclists will have developed things like respect, manners and a basic concept of not being the most important thing on the road.

While its true, that car priorization pushes pedestrian‘s quality of life down - the idea that pedestrians aren‘t as pushed by road rage cyclists is wierd.

For pedestrians Cars at least are identifiable (via license plates), can be slowed down by lane Design and are much more exposed to damage (in Germany even a tiny scratch you made in another car is something you yourself must call the Cops for or at least give the owner your data - German car owners fear nothing more than damages), thus are muuuch more accountable than cyclists.

Berlin and Hamburg have notorioisly dickish cyclists.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#12

Post by inopinatus » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:24 AM UTC

woodpanel wrote: post #11

Well, hopefully by the time this plan is realized Berlin cyclists will have developed things like respect, manners and a basic concept of not being the most important thing on the road. While its true, that car priorization pushes pedestrian‘s quality of life down - the idea that pedestrians aren‘t as pushed by road rage cyclists is wierd. For pedestrians Cars at least are identifiable (via license plates), can be sl…

The suggestion that cars are more at risk from damage than cyclists is preposterous.

In my experience of cycling in many different countries, cyclist militancy is directly proportional to the safety conditions. Most notably, the quality (or otherwise) of the drivers.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#13

Post by ufo » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:29 AM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #8

dbolgheroni wrote: post #7

Meanwhile, in São Paulo, the mayor is trying very hard to remove bike lanes already built, and are passing laws that make it a lot harder to build new ones.

Why on earth? An aunt who used to live there tells me the air pollution is quite bad -- one would think reducing emissions by encouraging cycling would be a priority.

Those bike lanes were put in place by the previous mayor and the new mayor is trying to undo things the previous mayor did. Basically, stupid politics.

(To be fair, the bike lanes weren't perfect but they should have been improved instead of removed)

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#14

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:34 AM UTC

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying.

What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0].

In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to worry about them getting too cold or hot or wet. You can easily transport 3 children in the back of a car without difficulty (try doing that on a bicycle). The car can easily carry all the diapers and baby food you need for an outing as well as changes of clothing for inevitable accidents kids make.

Bikes are awesome for adults without children, cars seem better for those with children, especially young children.

I wonder if this push to bike friendliness is driven in part by the changing demographics of more adults without children.

0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_d...

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#15

Post by lemoncucumber » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:36 AM UTC

justinator wrote: post #5

It's crazy to think: you design a city for people, rather than cars, and the city becomes more livable.

You can pry my 8 lane roads and acres of parking lots surrounding a mall full of chain stores from my cold, dead hands /s

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#16

Post by thomasfortes » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:37 AM UTC

sevensor wrote: post #8

dbolgheroni wrote: post #7

Meanwhile, in São Paulo, the mayor is trying very hard to remove bike lanes already built, and are passing laws that make it a lot harder to build new ones.

Why on earth? An aunt who used to live there tells me the air pollution is quite bad -- one would think reducing emissions by encouraging cycling would be a priority.

The previous mayor was from PT, a kinda left-wing party that a good part of the middle class loves to hate (there are a few good reasons, but the hate at this point is insane), so the actual mayor won with promises to revert the policies.

Combine that with the fact that São Paulo is a city where people seems to love cars more than their relatives and have an upper class that oppose bike lanes in front of their houses because "people that ride bikes aren't the kind of people that we want in our neighborhood" and you have a recipe for disaster.

These people (the upper class, not the middle) are also against subway expansion because it would be easier for people from the poorer regions of the city to come to their neighborhoods.

It's a mix of car loving, a party hate and prejudice that makes São Paulo a complete chaotic city when we're talking about transport.

I love São Paulo, have a lot of friends there, but almost everything that is being done right now seems to be in the opposition of the public interest.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#17

Post by CalRobert » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:41 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

For what it's worth, I just had a kid and am contemplating whether I want to keep living in a cycling-hostile place. I would like my kid to be able to ride a bike without dying.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#18

Post by fovc » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:44 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

If that were the case you'd expect that families with children in those cities wouldn't be bike users. In Amsterdam at least they very much were. I lived next to a primary school where 90+% of parents would show up on bikes to pick up their kids. You can easily transport 3 kids in a bakfiets

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#19

Post by kiliantics » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:45 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

I have family in Germany and they have two young children. They own a car but they only use it occasionally for trips. Their daily commute involves one of the parents transporting children to or from kindergarten using a bicycle trailer that both children can sit in. They do this year round and it works out fine. It works out a lot better, in fact, because cycling is much faster than sitting in rush hour traffic.

Re: Berlin's Plan to Become a City for Cyclists

#20

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Dec 21, 2017, 2:46 AM UTC

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #14

The cities mentioned as being great for cyclists are Copenhagen and Amersterdam, and now Berlin is trying. What is interesting is that the countries these cities are in Denmark, Netherlands, and Germany have fertility rates of 1.7, 1.7, 1.5 births/female [0]. In other words, people aren't having that many children. When transporting children, cars become a whole lot more convenient than bicycles. You don't have to wo…

This is how I plan on transporting my two kids by bicycle when they're a bit older (electric cargo bike): https://yubabikes.com/

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