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Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

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Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#31

Post by loeg »

danso wrote: post #3
derekp7 wrote: post #2

Is this different than advertising in a magazine that has a specific reader demographic? Or would that get a company in trouble too, if a the court rules that the intent was to exclude a given group?

It's against U.S. federal law for employers to discriminate against people aged 40-or-over on the basis of age. Having job ads that only younger people could see would seemingly fall afoul of that law: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adea.cfm

But curiously, not illegal to discriminate against people under 40 on the basis of age (at least, under the same Federal statute)[0]. If these job ads were targeted at the 40+ demographic only, they would be totally ok.

It's even been to the Supreme Court[1]:

> In the 2004 decision General Dynamics Land Systems, Inc. v. Cline, the U.S. Supreme Court settled a conflict among the lower courts over the viability of so-called “reverse age discrimination” claims under the ADEA. Reverse age discrimination involves claims by younger employees who allege they have been discriminated against because of their youth.

> ...

> The Court observed that “if Congress had been worrying about protecting the younger against the older, it would not likely have ignored everyone under forty.”

> ...

> In the wake of the Cline decision, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC) issued a new rule in July 2007, which specifically addresses reverse age discrimination and provides that employers aren’t liable under the ADEA when they prefer older workers over younger ones. ...

> While a help-wanted notice can’t contain terms and phrases that limit or deter the employment of older employees, businesses may lawfully post advertisements that express a preference for older individuals.

[0]: https://www.eeoc.gov/youth/age.html

[1]: http://www.hrhero.com/hl/articles/2009/10/23/can-employers-d...

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#32

Post by pcwalton »

conanbatt wrote: post #4

Meh, is it really important. There are many reasons to want younger workers, and there are many reasons you shouldn't want younger workers. I don't find it necessary for the government to step in to help one of the highest paid fields in america.

> There are many reasons to want younger workers, and there are many reasons you shouldn't want younger workers. I don't find it necessary for the government to step in to help one of the highest paid fields in america.

Would you feel similarly if you replaced "younger" with "gay" or "female"?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#33

Post by derekp7 »

brianberns wrote: post #12
conanbatt wrote: post #4

Meh, is it really important. There are many reasons to want younger workers, and there are many reasons you shouldn't want younger workers. I don't find it necessary for the government to step in to help one of the highest paid fields in america.

There may be "reasons", but are they ethical? I'd like an example of such a reason, if you have one.

The only one I can think of is casting a part in a movie. You wouldn't cast Sean Connery to play the part of Mark Zuckerberg in The Social Network, for example. But I believe there is already exceptions in the law for things like films.

And churches typically hire a younger person to be a youth minister, as the kids could relate to them better. Again, not sure about the legality of this though.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#34

Post by poulsbohemian »

It's anecdata, but if I ask my teen daughter, Facebook is for older people, and the kids are all using things that I've never even heard of. So not sure how you can really prove discrimination. There is some demographic skewing if you advertise on Facebook vs. other channels, but not sure you can really call it an age issue. Not sure what to make of the social marketing guy in the article -- seems like if you are looking for a social marketing person, then Facebook would be a logical place to advertise...

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#35

Post by Karunamon »

tmh79 wrote: post #29
mc32 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, i dunno. I think it's still on the advertiser to follow the law. Kind of like when some insurance co advertises some insurance product and that advert has to go through copy editors and legal to make sure it does not break any laws (representing product faithfully, not making false or dubious claims) before it gets okayed to be published. In this case HR should consult with legal before putting up job announcem…

Facebook is selling advertising. In this specific case, the product they are selling is illegal. Facebook should be held liable for selling illegal advertising. Do people find this challenging? Is there something wrong with this?

What would happen in the physical world with, say, a classified ad in a newspaper? It's on the poster of the ad to follow the law, not the paper, is it not?

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#36

Post by loeg »

fpisfun wrote: post #27

I would do this before I deleted my Facebook account when I ran ads not to intentionally exclude people but because I figured people over a certain age probably wouldn't know the technologies I was looking for and I figured I would probably end up paying for false positive ad clicks

> because I figured people over a certain age probably wouldn't know the technologies I was looking for

This is precisely the kind of age discrimination the law is intended to prevent.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#37

Post by avs733 »

mankypro wrote: post #23

Laugh while you can monkey boys. That generation built the infrastructure you rely on daily. Way to pay it forward. Suddenly, they too will turn around and realize that they're above 40 and not in the preferred demo. It all comes around in the end. Sometimes the SDN boys need a salty old dog to ask if anyone has actually looked at the back of GigE interface to see if theres a cable actually plugged into it :)

While at a certain level I can't help but agree with you, I think some self-reflection is in order.

It is perfectly legal to discriminate against young people but not against older folks. Those laws were put into place by that generation you reference.

Not to mention that the likely reason to target younger employees is because they can be paid less for the same job. That is a manifestation of the ongoing depowering of labor and individual laborers that was again driven by...that generation.

Sometimes, a group reaps what they sow.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#39

Post by danso »

loeg wrote: post #31
danso wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's against U.S. federal law for employers to discriminate against people aged 40-or-over on the basis of age. Having job ads that only younger people could see would seemingly fall afoul of that law: https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adea.cfm

But curiously, not illegal to discriminate against people under 40 on the basis of age (at least, under the same Federal statute)[0]. If these job ads were targeted at the 40+ demographic only, they would be totally ok. It's even been to the Supreme Court[1]: > In the 2004 decision General Dynamics Land Systems, Inc. v. Cline, the U.S. Supreme Court settled a conflict among the lower courts over the viability of so-c…

I wonder if this one-way protection exists because otherwise it would be legally tenuous to post job ads seeking a minimum number of years of experience (e.g. 10+ years in professional Python development), which basically by definition discriminate against the very young.

Re: Dozens of Companies Are Using Facebook to Exclude Older Workers From Job Ads

#40

Post by slededit »

Karunamon wrote: post #35
tmh79 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is selling advertising. In this specific case, the product they are selling is illegal. Facebook should be held liable for selling illegal advertising. Do people find this challenging? Is there something wrong with this?

What would happen in the physical world with, say, a classified ad in a newspaper? It's on the poster of the ad to follow the law, not the paper, is it not?

Newspapers do review advertising both for illegal content and things that would negatively affect their brand.

If you created an ad with "over 40 need not apply" most newspapers would reject the ad.

However this case goes over and above. Facebook is actively adding a feature to screen users by age which increases their culpability.

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