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Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

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Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#81

Post by UncleEntity »

Fnoord wrote: post #69
UncleEntity wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Especially not when users don't have an easy way to opt-out. When I first heard about it took me like 35 seconds to opt-out -- open options and unclick the little clicky box, easy peasy.

Good for you. If I need to be happy every time I opt-out "when I hear about it" which is often "when I already used the software" and get USDs for every hour I didn't opt-out even though I'd have loved to opt-out right away, then I'd be one hell of a happy Richie Rich. Having to go through settings in software when you install it, to get the software to work the way the average user wants it to, is annoying. An examp…

> Good for you. If I need to be happy every time I opt-out "when I hear about it" which is often "when I already used the software" and get USDs for every hour I didn't opt-out even though I'd have loved to opt-out right away, then I'd be one hell of a happy Richie Rich.

It's not like they owe me anything, I downloaded their software for free and use it for free with absolutely no expectation other than "I'll use it as long as it works for me."

If it gets annoying I'll replace it with something that isn't just in this particular case it was a lot easier to click a box than search out a new adblocker.

> Why do software developers get away treating their customers like stupid sheep either wasting their time or getting their data?

Because they want to use Windows 10 or uTorrent or something with a bitcoin miner instead of searching out alternatives. Personally, other than ABP, I can think of no other cases of this happening on my stock (other than the chrome repo) Fedora box.

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#82

Post by mindslight »

munchbunny wrote: post #77
def_true_false wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> doesn't have a shady track record Care to expand on that?

A couple years ago, on top of their acceptable ads program that was more or less pay-to-bypass, Eeyo announced that it was going to start an ad exchange to let people buy placements on spots that ABP blocked. In effect ABP was forcing itself in as a middle man and taking a fee from both the site owner and the advertiser. As an example, if I, your local newspaper, sell a placement to your local car dealership, ABP com…

> That's one DDoS short of a digital protection racket.

Your specific condemnation rests on this tired narrative that "ad spots" are something belonging to the site owner. In the reality of the web, it's all the user's display area - the user agent decides what and how to render.

The real critique is that the software is working against the user's interest for its own gain. This is par for the course of proprietary software, but generally seen as unsustainable poor taste in the Free world. Fortunately, having achieved the activation energy of installing extensions for one's self, switching is not hard.

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#83

Post by saagarjha »

brianwawok wrote: post #71
m12k wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ABP wasn't the first Sure, and the iPhone wasn't the first smartphone either, but it did bring the concept to mainstream attention. Same goes for ABP

No I think the Palm Pilot did that.

Maybe into your attention, but the majority of people probably have no idea what a Palm Pilot even is…

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#84

Post by Nadya »

def_true_false wrote: post #48
Nadya wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is an opt-out checkbox in the settings. Which should be opt-in. And if nobody wants to opt-in there is the problem; it's going against what the users want. Most people never change default settings of software they install so "opt-in" may as well not have a way to "opt-out" except as a scapegoat to say you can.

> Most people never change default settings of software they install so "opt-in" may as well not have a way to "opt-out" except as a scapegoat to say you can. You might as well just blame the browser vendor for not having a built-in ad blocker, URL rewriter (Google search results), not disabling 3rd party cookies or whatever else the flavour of the month in abusing-features-for-tracking is. The people who never look…

>The people who never look into the settings probably didn't install the ad blocker themselves in the first place.

Not true. Even most people who install an AdBlocker will not change their settings. If you change your settings, you're part of a very small minority. Businesses often use this to increase tips.

Imagine two settings:

1) Enter your own amount (default of $0.00)

2) Four options: 15%, 20%, 25%, Other

If you use #1 you'll receive fewer tips. Many people will leave it to $0.00. If you use #2, most people will tip and of those tips most will be 15-20%.

[0] https://www.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/09/14/do-users-change-t...

[1] https://www.fastcodesign.com/3022182/how-square-registers-ui...

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#86

Post by epicide »

m12k wrote: post #61
Fnoord wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, as if ABP innovated so much? ABP wasn't the first. I remember using an adblocker native in Firefox back around 2004 (and IIRC I even used on on Mozilla milestones). Back then, there were already /etc/hosts based alternatives (which also have always worked in Windows btw) as well, and a so-called personal firewall could also block ads. These existed for Windows 9x. We're talking end of '90s here. As for the c…

> ABP wasn't the first Sure, and the iPhone wasn't the first smartphone either, but it did bring the concept to mainstream attention. Same goes for ABP

> So could you explain us why you pick ABP over uBlock?

He's not asking you to explain why you appreciate ABP.

He's asking you why you still use it.

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#87

Post by epicide »

def_true_false wrote: post #52
Macha wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The eventual setup of their acceptable ads policy ended up being seen as pay-to-whitelist by users and advertisers. It felt that way to advertisers especially when the fee was 30% of ad revenue rather than say, a processing fee for time spent verifying it met the criteria. A lot of them were more ok to ignore ad blocking before they were held to ransom. Users were unhappy at an adblocker's default config allowing ads…

I can see why people would be upset, but it doesn't seem especially shady to me - they were upfront about what they are doing and why. I do remember that multiple forks appeared immediately, but I don't see how trusting someone else in addition to the ABP developers is an improvement... until UBO there was nothing to switch to, and UBO had other advantages.

So as long as I tell you I'm screwing you over, it's okay?

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#88

Post by munchbunny »

mindslight wrote: post #82
munchbunny wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple years ago, on top of their acceptable ads program that was more or less pay-to-bypass, Eeyo announced that it was going to start an ad exchange to let people buy placements on spots that ABP blocked. In effect ABP was forcing itself in as a middle man and taking a fee from both the site owner and the advertiser. As an example, if I, your local newspaper, sell a placement to your local car dealership, ABP com…

> That's one DDoS short of a digital protection racket. Your specific condemnation rests on this tired narrative that "ad spots" are something belonging to the site owner. In the reality of the web, it's all the user's display area - the user agent decides what and how to render. The real critique is that the software is working against the user's interest for its own gain. This is par for the course of proprietary s…

> In the reality of the web

I'm willing to concede that I assume a specific view of the nature of ad spots, but you're going to have to reeeeeeaaaaally stretch your argument to claim that this is the reality of the web. For the vast majority of people the browser is the renderer that happens to be customizable, not the arbiter of what is rendered, regardless of the browser's capability to decide.

Regardless, you don't have to accept the online advertising business model, even at a moral level, to acknowledge the shadiness of the other aspects of the practice that I pointed out.

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#89

Post by epicide »

DarronWyke wrote: post #70
mockindignant wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want to provide some facts to support your claim or are we just supposed to take your word for it? Because, from where I am sitting, it sure does look like they totally sold out.

What facts are there that they sold out? They added an optional 'show some ads' feature, only allowing those ads that followed a very strict and well-defined list of parameters. It's very much optional, and not hidden at all to turn it off.

> [ABP] makes no secret that it charges big companies for whitelisting services – it mentions it right in its FAQ.

From [1]. I'm not sure what better fits the definition of selling out.

[1] https://techcrunch.com/2013/07/06/google-and-others-reported...

Re: Taking a break from Adblock Plus development

#90

Post by Fnoord »

UncleEntity wrote: post #81
Fnoord wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good for you. If I need to be happy every time I opt-out "when I hear about it" which is often "when I already used the software" and get USDs for every hour I didn't opt-out even though I'd have loved to opt-out right away, then I'd be one hell of a happy Richie Rich. Having to go through settings in software when you install it, to get the software to work the way the average user wants it to, is annoying. An examp…

> Good for you. If I need to be happy every time I opt-out "when I hear about it" which is often "when I already used the software" and get USDs for every hour I didn't opt-out even though I'd have loved to opt-out right away, then I'd be one hell of a happy Richie Rich. It's not like they owe me anything, I downloaded their software for free and use it for free with absolutely no expectation other than "I'll use it…

I know its strange in 2017 and for youngsters in general (and that's NOFI; its a general observation and zeitgeist; I don't know your age nor am I interested in such) but it is important to note that "for free" doesn't equal "go use my PII for profit" or "go help others receive my PII" or "I will allow you to use my computer as part of your cloud without my consent".

Glad we're getting GDPR in EU. I hope other countries like USA will follow suit. US citizens deserve such protection just as much as EU citizens. Not to mention the rest of the world. We'll have to see how it works out in practice though.

As for the owing and such regarding FOSS, that's related to warranty and such. That doesn't mean its cool to deliver the software crippled. Especially not without mentioning it is crippled beforehand. We got a word for that in the physical world: dishonesty.

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