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How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

washingtonpost.com

111–119 of 119 posts

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The us is such a decentralized power that business interests influence policy. China is a business interest. On the political level China seems to be a rival, however the true nature of our relationship is equivalent to that of business partners. Political leaders will talk shit about china while more powerful big businesses are essentially reliant on trade with china. There is nothing to keep in check because nobody…

Sorry to pierce your holy pope box, but this stuff is really, really, really old. It's way bigger than peoples' economic interest. This deals with forces that people are willing to die for. Think about that for a minute. What causes people to sign up for war? 9 times out of 10, it's for "the good of the country." How do you define the good of the country? Only against the interests of other countries. What's in the b…

I disagree. Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power. Thus it shapes everything and all else is secondary. Things like pride or "the good of the country" are more often then not cover stories.

>Why is North Korea on our radar, but not China?

This one is kind of obvious. America and N. Korea aren't business partners also N. Korea acts like a unpredictable child with nuclear weapons, China does not.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilized? Us? You must have America confused with some other global superpower, like, say, ancient Rome. We've been pursuing one or more wars more or less continuously since WW2. They don't feel like wars to us, because our economic heft is such that fighting a war on foreign soil is pocket change. We just don't call them wars until later, when the historians can finally control the narrative.

This is worded like propaganda. War and conflicts between countries have been on the decline for decades, and conflicts between major world powers have gone down to nearly nothing[1]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace/

This is very true. There has never been a time throughout world history more peaceful then things are now.

The news paints an exaggeration of reality as we know it.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without nuclear weapons, I'm pretty sure that the US has no stomach for a toe-to-toe all-out conventional war with China. We're not willing to accept the casualties just to "keep China in check".

We don't really need an all-out conventional war with China in order to check its rise. We just need to make a sufficiently credible threat. Americans are more than willing to go to war in order to do this, we did it all throughout the Cold War, for instance, in order to check the USSR. That was only 50 years ago. This particular geopolitical dynamic goes clear back to the Middle Ages. Why we are not threatening Chin…

What's a complete mystery to me is why isn't China keeping The USA in check? The US is the biggest CO2 emitters in the world and is slowing killing the world for everyone. China needs to arm those nuclear weapons to keep the US from polluting the world into oblivion.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civilized? Us? You must have America confused with some other global superpower, like, say, ancient Rome. We've been pursuing one or more wars more or less continuously since WW2. They don't feel like wars to us, because our economic heft is such that fighting a war on foreign soil is pocket change. We just don't call them wars until later, when the historians can finally control the narrative.

This is worded like propaganda. War and conflicts between countries have been on the decline for decades, and conflicts between major world powers have gone down to nearly nothing[1]. [1] https://ourworldindata.org/war-and-peace/

Yeah, but it's only valid argument after China has become a major world power.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even without nuclear weapons, I'm pretty sure that the US has no stomach for a toe-to-toe all-out conventional war with China. We're not willing to accept the casualties just to "keep China in check".

We don't really need an all-out conventional war with China in order to check its rise. We just need to make a sufficiently credible threat. Americans are more than willing to go to war in order to do this, we did it all throughout the Cold War, for instance, in order to check the USSR. That was only 50 years ago. This particular geopolitical dynamic goes clear back to the Middle Ages. Why we are not threatening Chin…

Because American Lives Matter? Because the Chinese are more willing to go to war to protect themselves, and there are more Chinese than Americans?

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to pierce your holy pope box, but this stuff is really, really, really old. It's way bigger than peoples' economic interest. This deals with forces that people are willing to die for. Think about that for a minute. What causes people to sign up for war? 9 times out of 10, it's for "the good of the country." How do you define the good of the country? Only against the interests of other countries. What's in the b…

I disagree. Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power. Thus it shapes everything and all else is secondary. Things like pride or "the good of the country" are more often then not cover stories. >Why is North Korea on our radar, but not China? This one is kind of obvious. America and N. Korea aren't business partners also N. Korea acts like a unpredictable child with nuclear weapons,…

> Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power.

If by business you mean "imposing onerous terms on other people, up to and including literal slavery," I'd agree. The unfairness of the terms is what makes the superpower. Without the unfairness, then balance can be maintained. Superpowers do business on their terms, not anyone else's.

It takes national pride to consistently do the work to maintain a competitive advantage. You see the same thing in business with trying to maintain an edge. It's not something you can do using your normal effort. You have to work smart and hard.

> America and N. Korea aren't business partners

America and N. Korea could be business partners. The only thing that keeps this from happening is American obstinacy. North Korea would happily do business with the US. In fact, the whole reason for North Korea's nuclear brinkmanship is precisely because we have slapped onerous sanctions on them and refuse to allow anyone else but China to trade with them. There are dozens of nuclear-capable nations out there, more popping up by the decade. We don't treat Pakistan like we do N. Korea. Opening up the spigots of American and global trade will turn North Korea into South Korea in just a few decades. But we're instead applying containment strategies to them like they killed our dog or something. North Korea doesn't really need to be contained. They're just not powerful enough.

China does. This is what we should be doing with China, perhaps in addition to North Korea, but not in spite of. We should be pushing back much more rigorously in the South China Sea, keeping our relations with small nations in China's periphery open instead of stagnating, pushing hard for our trade agenda instead of allowing China's to take lead.

But we're not even doing those basic steps.

Look I'm not even offering a moral argument here. I've been using 'should' in the "balls should roll downhill." We should be doing it, not we ought to be. What I'm saying is that this is how foreign policy is done. Has been done, for a thousand years. I'm not saying we ought to be starting an arms race with China. I'm saying that by all rights, by all historical analyses, China looks like a rival, not like a partner. But we're not treating her like one, and just allowing her to accede to the world stage completely unchallenged.

Good thing? Bad thing? That's up to history to decide. What's not is the fact that this is completely unprecedented.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power. Thus it shapes everything and all else is secondary. Things like pride or "the good of the country" are more often then not cover stories. >Why is North Korea on our radar, but not China? This one is kind of obvious. America and N. Korea aren't business partners also N. Korea acts like a unpredictable child with nuclear weapons,…

> Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power. If by business you mean "imposing onerous terms on other people, up to and including literal slavery," I'd agree. The unfairness of the terms is what makes the superpower. Without the unfairness, then balance can be maintained. Superpowers do business on their terms, not anyone else's. It takes national pride to consistently do the work t…

You are wrong on every count. Business is motivated by the desire to be profitable, not national pride. Most people work to live, get rich and out perform that ass hole coworker who got a bullshit promotion. Raise your hand if you work to make America great instead of a salary.

>America and N. Korea could be business partners.

Nuclear weapons testing is the entire reason why they are banned as business partners. It needs to be contained because it's a trump card that a relatively backwards country can use to level the playing field of war.

Additionally, even before the trade sanctions were enabled (2006) the weak North Korean economy would make the country a pitiful and basically non-relevant business partner to the US. China, as N. Koreas' lone trade partner, has the GDP to lift N. Korea up to a relatively prosperous nation but that hasn't happened due to the internal issues with the N. Korean economy itself.

>Look I'm not even offering a moral argument here. I've been using 'should' in the "balls should roll downhill." We should be doing it, not we ought to be. What I'm saying is that this is how foreign policy is done. Has been done, for a thousand years. I'm not saying we ought to be starting an arms race with China. I'm saying that by all rights, by all historical analyses, China looks like a rival, not like a partner. But we're not treating her like one, and just allowing her to accede to the world stage completely unchallenged.

China is a rival politically. But globalization today has made that rivalry all but a front to the true nature of the US and China relationship. US and China are economic partners and rivals in the olympic games and comparing GDP numbers.

The most powerful entities in the united states are not politically elected leaders. The most powerful entities are for profit corporations. Essentially just massive conglomerates of individuals grouped together into a massive entity to work together in business. When you group people together in such a way, an interesting thing happens, the individual morals and desires and "National Pride" of a person get lost in the aggregation of people and what you get is an entity that acts like a psychopathic person on an insane quest to do anything for profit.

Big businesses or aka corporations are the driving forces and most powerful individuals in the world today. It is the desires of these corporations that largely drive economic policies and foreign affairs.

When you look at motive, when you examine the rationale behind why a country does one thing instead of another thing, you have to incorporate Big business into the psychology of your analysis. It looks like your analysis doesn't include this as a factor. If you did, it'd be obvious why the US isn't challenging china.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Business is by far the most powerful driving factor in shaping a super power. If by business you mean "imposing onerous terms on other people, up to and including literal slavery," I'd agree. The unfairness of the terms is what makes the superpower. Without the unfairness, then balance can be maintained. Superpowers do business on their terms, not anyone else's. It takes national pride to consistently do the work t…

You are wrong on every count. Business is motivated by the desire to be profitable, not national pride. Most people work to live, get rich and out perform that ass hole coworker who got a bullshit promotion. Raise your hand if you work to make America great instead of a salary. >America and N. Korea could be business partners. Nuclear weapons testing is the entire reason why they are banned as business partners. It n…

Your argument is, essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that economic globalization makes the last 1000 years of foreign policy and geopolitical theory completely moot. While I can agree that globalization is a part of what we're seeing, I do not believe that it is the full story or the primary driver. The world has been globalizing for 200 years now.

Re: How China got a U.S. senator to do its political bidding

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong on every count. Business is motivated by the desire to be profitable, not national pride. Most people work to live, get rich and out perform that ass hole coworker who got a bullshit promotion. Raise your hand if you work to make America great instead of a salary. >America and N. Korea could be business partners. Nuclear weapons testing is the entire reason why they are banned as business partners. It n…

Your argument is, essentially, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that economic globalization makes the last 1000 years of foreign policy and geopolitical theory completely moot. While I can agree that globalization is a part of what we're seeing, I do not believe that it is the full story or the primary driver. The world has been globalizing for 200 years now.

Yes. The changes we've seen in the last 200 years have never been seen historically. Theories that worked 1000 years ago do not apply.
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