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Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

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Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#51

Post by jstanley »

toyg wrote: post #44
1undo wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree to "share the cost of dinner". But I don't get the food that I ordered, and eat very little of it. And I watch others eat a lot of food without contributing to the tab. I then want to leave the dinner which is only right

> I then want to leave the dinner which is only right But you would at least pay for what you ordered. Anyone just upping and leaving would be considered very rude, and nobody would invite him ever again.

But he's already paid for far more than what he's eaten. If anything, the others at the table should be giving him money back.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#52

Post by WhirlingBirdz »

interdrift wrote: post #45
WhirlingBirdz wrote: post #40

Brexit is bad for the UK. We can all agree on that? But it's also a TRAGEDY for the EU. They've lost one of their principal contributors, as well as prestige and status. This is generally not talked about. The EU are negotiating HARD. Why? Because they are in a position of weakness. If they were in a position of strength then they would let the UK go easily. Everyone knows this. The complications are that the UK poli…

This is not true. Brexit is good for the UK and the EU. Now finally clowns like Farage will be exposed for their 'rebel for good' fake ideals. The British public will either accept it's own sentence following decades of 'the bad bureaucrats in Brussels' fake news or come to realize that cooperation at both economical and political on large scale is the way to move forward.

Brexit isn't about Farage. As you say, he is a clown, a distraction, and a totem for the anger of middle-class metropolitans.

Brexit was about the working-class of the UK who voted to leave the EU, and their reasons for doing that.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#53

Post by pimmen »

coldtea wrote: post #47

Or, the EU is deluded about its worth in the modern world.

But not about its worth to the UK. The EU is by far the UK's largest market and still has a lot of growth potential (especially in the southern and eastern member states).

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#54

Post by goneri »

1undo wrote: post #20
marze wrote: post #3

Why can’t the U.K. just leave? Say we are gone, we are not giving you any money, and unilaterally state a position on trade terms? I realize this may sound naive, but I’m just curious.

The European Union wants to maintain centralized power. A Country like the UK leaving weakens their authority. Meanwhile the uk wants to remain sovereign, but doesn't want to lose the benefits of the EU. Its essentially a power play. Freedom is the better choice imo

This is a pure opinion based comment with no fact and a naive conclusion. This extremely complex topic deserves better, especially on HN.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#55

Post by eropple »

jstanley wrote: post #46
sz4kerto wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because _everything_ that happens between countries (and between the UK an the EU) is driven by treaties and agreements. Simple example: if UK leaves without agreements and treaties then there can be no flights from the UK to the EU. This sounds crazy but we have tens of thousands of bilateral agreements that drive even the most fundamental things, and they can be (and are) affected by e.g. the EU membership. Or UK c…

> Or UK citizens would not be able to buy products from the EU because there would be no agreements in place that'd allow companies in the EU to export goods. This is where you and I fundamentally disagree about how trade works. If I want to trade with a person in a foreign country, I don't see why our governments need to even know, let alone come up with some agreement. If the foreign person and I can agree a deal,…

Because you have agreed, implicitly and in concert with your fellow citizens, to live in a polity with rules around how members of that polity interact with members of other polities in order to collectively wield the power of your polity for the aims of that polity.

You can try to change the direction your polity takes with its stances towards others. You can leave if you don't approve of those stances and see no signs of changing them. But the question belies a fundamental misunderstanding of...yanno...why polities, why politics, exist.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#56

Post by [deleted] »

dguaraglia wrote: post #50
WhirlingBirdz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other explanations for why the working-class voted for Brexit are available.

Is this really a new norm, where troll accounts are created to push bigoted talking points? This account is 9 minutes old. The other day I had a similar “interaction” with a 30 minute old account. Who is paying for this campaign?

[deleted]

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#57

Post by ZenoArrow »

jjoonathan wrote: post #38
ZenoArrow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jaguar is owned by an Indian company.

When did India join the EU?

Look at the context in which the comments were made. The point sz4kerto made was about issues surrounding the import of BMWs and BMW parts. tzahola followed up with a comment about Jaguars. Jaguar is known for being a British car brand. The suggestion of importing from non-EU countries was not made clear, the implication I took from it was that British people could buy British goods, so I made the comment about who now owns Jaguar. Make more sense?

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#58

Post by Tomte »

gaius wrote: post #9
marze wrote: post #3

Why can’t the U.K. just leave? Say we are gone, we are not giving you any money, and unilaterally state a position on trade terms? I realize this may sound naive, but I’m just curious.

Article 50 specifies exactly what will happen: WTO rules will apply. I think most people now are assuming WTO and considering anything else to be a bonus.

„WTO rules“ are just a framework for trading rules. Those rules itself still need to be negotiated.

For example, „which form do you have to fill with which information in how many copies, in order to export pastry?“.

That‘s much faster than a real trade deal, because it‘s mostly administrative, but it is still a hurdle to clear before you can trade under „WTO rules“.

And now do that for a gazillion sectors and special cases. With every trading partner.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#59

Post by junkscience2017 »

the EU is rapidly turning in to a union with few willing and satisfied participants

the EU would be much better off letting disgruntled states go, even if it diminishes the size and prestige of the remaining union, unless the bureaucrats relish spending the next fifty years in endless, pointless debate and hand-wringing

the UK isn't alone. I doubt the EU will see 2030 in its current form.

Re: Britain is, and was, deluded about its negotiating power with the EU

#60

Post by jstanley »

dguaraglia wrote: post #50
WhirlingBirdz wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other explanations for why the working-class voted for Brexit are available.

Is this really a new norm, where troll accounts are created to push bigoted talking points? This account is 9 minutes old. The other day I had a similar “interaction” with a 30 minute old account. Who is paying for this campaign?

Exactly what was bigoted about that comment?
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