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What Happened to Yahoo

paulgraham.com

111–120 of 282 posts

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#111
post #36

"in the early days Facebook made a point of hiring programmers even for jobs that would not ordinarily consist of programming, like HR and marketing." No offense, but hiring programmers for HR seems like a terrible idea. HR people's main capacity is to understand people and relationships, not exactly something programmers are known for being good at.

I've noticed this pervasive bias that if a person is good at programming, they must be terrible at anything and everything else.

Perhaps this is a hacker-culture reaction to that kind of thinking?

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#112

"Most technology companies eventually get taken over by suits and middle managers." Interesting statement. I suspect this process is well under way at Google these days. But why does this happen? Is it just that once companies grow large enough, you need middle managers, (who then consolidate power and control)? Is there a more nuanced explanation?

People tend to hire people like themselves, who think and talk like they do. So once a few middle managers get in, they start to hire other middle managers. They act like a secret club. They speak the same language, went to the same schools, have the same friends, hang around each other, know each other better than people not in the club. They tend to hire and promote other that are similar to them, more than simply…

There's some truth to what you say but I don't think it's completely for insidious/non-meritocratic reasons.

I'm far along enough in my career that I can say that I think what's happening is that it's very very hard to hire somebody through the old "post job, take tons of resumes, filter, interview" method because there's so much crap, and so much noise, and so much risk of getting false positives and false negatives, etc., that eventually you realize it is much much easier and more reliable to hire people you've already worked with at a previous company in the past. You can vouch for them as a known quantity.

Ideally, a bigger proportion of hiring would happen like this. But there's always new folks entering the field who won't have somebody to vouch for them, plus, not everybody who you would vouch for is available or interested, so you sometimes to have to go the posting-resume-interview route and cross your fingers.

So it's almost the opposite of what you said, though with the same goal! You should want to hire based solely on merit -- but if you have to fill a job opening and your choice comes down to filling it with a total stranger whose resume claims he has 20 years of experience in "J2EE/JBOSS/Jscript" versus filling it with a guy you know firsthand had delivered a major threading-related fix to a previous employer's Java codebase the wiser and more meritocratic choice is probably to go with the second guy. And it's not because he knows a secret handshake. :)

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#113
post #22

Apple is very conspicuously absent from this article. ...the kind of single-minded, almost obnoxiously elitist focus on hiring the smartest people that the big winners have had. Is Apple a big winner, like Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (the other companies he mentions repeatedly)? Bigger. (Check the last 1, 5 or 10 years on Google finance for the GOOG or MSFT comparison. FB is not public, but...) Do they have this…

Apple is still prestigious for programmers. If you're a good programmer and you work at Apple, you're not embarrassed to tell your friends about it.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#114

In 2002, Yahoo! began a serious effort to compete with Google in search by buying Inktomi (plus Altavista and FAST). In what must have been early 2004, I came over with the rest of the Inktomi crew to work on search. The Inktomi people were top notch, Yahoo! seemed earnest about doing what it took to go head to head with Google, and the integration efforts were done really well. While I was there I worked in an islan…

Great insight from somebody who should know, thanks for posting that.

I also wanted to ask, am I the only one who thinks it would be completely awesome to work on a project called Panama, simply because you'd have an excuse to have a Van Halen song as your theme? "Pa-na-ma-ha... Panama!"

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#115
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know enough about what it's like inside Apple now to say. Certainly from what I've heard there used to be a hackerly culture in the past. I remember reading how mystified and offended Gil Amelio was by it. But I don't know what things are like now. Is there anyone here who can talk about it? Is the atmos hackerly or corporate?

It's a very hackerly culture (in some ways still living off the inheritance of Woz), but you won't ever hear about that for two reasons: 1. Secrecy is part of the culture. 2. Engineers work hard at Apple, and many teams are surprisingly small. There are no 20% projects at Apple because nobody has the time.

2. That is not all that different from Google.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#116
post #108
post #22

Apple is very conspicuously absent from this article. ...the kind of single-minded, almost obnoxiously elitist focus on hiring the smartest people that the big winners have had. Is Apple a big winner, like Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (the other companies he mentions repeatedly)? Bigger. (Check the last 1, 5 or 10 years on Google finance for the GOOG or MSFT comparison. FB is not public, but...) Do they have this…

Some companies with hackerly culture - eg Xerox, Sun , Microsoft seem to enter this phase where a lot of cutting edge research and exciting hacking happens but doesnt translate into revenue or customer appreciation. Apple particularly seems to have avoided this problem phenomenally and sometimes I get the feeling that google is susceptible to it. Any speculation into why this might happen ?

This seems to coinside, at least in the examples you give, with companies that have a "suit culture" who still recognize the importance of perpetuating a hacker culture. Maybe it is a simple flaw in the to-market process for such cultures.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#117
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Privacy, perhaps.

Privacy and social networking are naturally opposing ideas--social networking is all about sharing information with people and privacy is all about keeping information from people. That's like saying Google ("organize the world's information") overlooked the importance of disorganization or ignorance. It won't be privacy at all that Facebook overlooks, it'll be something completely orthogonal to that axis. It is, how…

Socializing however is all about varying levels of privacy.

I won't tell my coworkers or boss the same things I tell my friends, I won't tell my friends what I tell my close friends, and my family sits on the highest tier.

Maybe facebook will get this maybe it won't, or in general maybe it is impossible on the web where information tends to be so open.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#118
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it's hackerly...

No, it's not. That gets at the very essence of my original comment. One of the assertions in the article is that a hacker culture is a necessary ingredient for a successful technology company. I see Apple as a counterexample to this argument. And it's a counterexample that shouldn't be ignored. Apple is driven by design (industrial design, product design, graphic design). They think about products, not technology. Th…

Apple is driven by design (industrial design, product design, graphic design). They think about products, not technology.

I would actually disagree with the last part of that. I think Apple is always thinking about technology, but in the context of design. The Apple difference is not simply that design comes first, technology second, but that design is the gatekeeper for technology.

The iPod is the shining example. Could Apple have made a music player before the mass-production of the 1.8" hard drive? Sure, but it wouldn't have been the wonder to hold in your hand that the iPod was. It was when the technology was ready for the design requirements that they pounced on the opportunity.

Same thing with the iPhone. Apple could have made a smartphone before affordable capacitive multi-touch screens, multi-gigabyte flash drives, and fast-enough-for-desktop-browsing SoCs, but they likely didn't feel they could make a user experience to their standard with anything less.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#119
post #22

Apple is very conspicuously absent from this article. ...the kind of single-minded, almost obnoxiously elitist focus on hiring the smartest people that the big winners have had. Is Apple a big winner, like Google, Microsoft, and Facebook (the other companies he mentions repeatedly)? Bigger. (Check the last 1, 5 or 10 years on Google finance for the GOOG or MSFT comparison. FB is not public, but...) Do they have this…

Apple is still prestigious for programmers . If you're a good programmer and you work at Apple, you're not embarrassed to tell your friends about it.

Apple's legendary UX is driven equally as much by programmers who write efficient code as it is by designers who design efficient UIs.

Re: What Happened to Yahoo

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very hackerly culture (in some ways still living off the inheritance of Woz), but you won't ever hear about that for two reasons: 1. Secrecy is part of the culture. 2. Engineers work hard at Apple, and many teams are surprisingly small. There are no 20% projects at Apple because nobody has the time.

2. That is not all that different from Google.

Most Googlers I've talked to call it the 120% project.
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