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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

reuters.com

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#391

Post by code_potato »

juanmirocks wrote: post #211
raverbashing wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France > And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). N…

I live in Munich, Bavaria, and, to give an example, in most restaurants you will not be able to pay with a credit card. Having said that, you can pay once you reach a minimum amount with what they call an "EC-Karte", a sort of debit card.

Seconded. Also a fella from Munich. In regular restaurants you have to pay at least 25 EUR to be able to pay with “EC Karte” which I find incredibly annoying. I don’t like carrying around any cash honestly. I have my cards and that’s it.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#392

Post by latexr »

RestlessMind wrote: post #99

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

And yet, we (EU) have lost Net Neutrality before the US. It was shoehorned into the bill that ends roaming charges[1].

I’d be remiss not to mention it saddens me that every time the US has faced internet-related difficulties (SOPA, PIPA, this latest FCC decision), I’ve seen multiple Europeans making noise in support, yet I haven’t observed the reverse to be true at all. In our own fight for Net Neutrality or against the VAT reform that hurts mostly small business, what I saw from the US was crickets.

I agree with you that the EU is better than the US on these types of issues, but with every threat it faces, I see less results.

[1]: Which I appreciate and have taken good advantage of already, but would gladly give up for Net Neutrality.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#393

Post by kodablah »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #339
kodablah wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even negotiating power would be a valid argument in a perfectly regulated world. But governments, often with good intentions, improperly or overly regulate many times only stifling us small guys and often not even knowing it (it's hard to quantify). > And these regulations are a very minor impingement on free contract-making Agreed, but it's a question of cost vs benefit. They may not be a minor impingement on smalle…

I don't understand what noticeable burden there is here, especially compared to the actual risk of all this data.

Article 83, paragraph 5 says I can be fined 20 mil EUR (or 4% of revenue, whichever is greater...so 20 mil would be the number for me). You might say, "well don't break the law" (like that's an excuse for punishments some types of companies can afford and others can't) or "no, that's only for big companies" (like it's ok to rely on subjective enforcement). I'd rather just not risk going bankrupt or prevent myself from doing business in the EU until I'm big enough to handle that.

> All this data

What, from my two large customers? So EU says I violated article 5 and the personal data wasn't "processed lawfully, fairly and in a transparent manner in relation to the data subject". Ug, such subjectivity. It is so sad to see so many people want solutions to these problems that they assume the GPDR is it. I can't do business there just praying I don't misstep and go bankrupt or subjecting myself to the whims of these loaded terms like "transparency" until I am large enough to absorb the blow.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#394

Post by latexr »

nlperguiy wrote: post #362
slimshady94 wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So would bitcoin be a step back here?

Well, assuming that bitcoin can be tracked and deanonymized, it would. Although, all cryptocoins are a step back. There's no way they could support transactions-per-second necessary. As much as I like cards, I also prefer paying for stuff with cash. In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer, or high-end computer monitor, or a high-end TV with cash. Similar thing in France. Imagine yourself throwing a din…

> In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer (…) with cash.

A few questions:

  1. Are you sure it’s illegal?
  2. From what value does that apply?
  3. How is that enforced?
  4. More importantly, who is in trouble if they do so, the buyer or the seller?
I live in Portugal and have different friends that bought different brand computers on different stores on different years, both paid cash, and in no case was there a problem. In at least one of the cases the cashier just made a quick call to the manager, asked “can I accept it?” and it was done.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#395

Post by rsynnott »

slimshady94 wrote: post #358
pjmlp wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Portugal is even a bit better, because all banks got around SIBS, which created a kind of mini-Internet with ATMs machines. So we can use our debit cards for buying tickets for trains, concerts, cinema, money transfer, paying Internet shops, charging pre-pay phones,... All without paying ATM taxes, regardless of the bank of origin. So the majority of people, if they aren't traveling abroad or buying Internet stuff…

So would bitcoin be a step back here?

Bitcoin, which costs ~$20 to make a transaction now, would be a step back pretty much anywhere this century, or much of the previous one.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#396

Post by latexr »

raverbashing wrote: post #205
juanmirocks wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm European, and I sure miss my perceived greater freedom and innovation of economical activities in the US. Things like having UBER banned for example in France or Germany completely throws me off. And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. And those damn cookie notices!! Because they show up in every page, everybo…

Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France > And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). N…

> Note not all cookies need the notice

Is there a reference for what kind of cookies do and don’t?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#397

Post by gkya »

juanmirocks wrote: post #188
gradys wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world…

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm European, and I sure miss my perceived greater freedom and innovation of economical activities in the US. Things like having UBER banned for example in France or Germany completely throws me off. And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. And those damn cookie notices!! Because they show up in every page, everybo…

Uber undermines local taxi businesses offering mild comfort and some wows but also no job/social security and no quality standards (like the London Knowledge for example). It outcompetes taxis by sidestepping regulations. And just like airbnb while it was meant as a means to share one's own property for extra income, that's hardly the case in reality. People use both for full time commercial activity, and they evade taxes and regulations through them.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#398

Post by pjmlp »

latexr wrote: post #394
nlperguiy wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, assuming that bitcoin can be tracked and deanonymized, it would. Although, all cryptocoins are a step back. There's no way they could support transactions-per-second necessary. As much as I like cards, I also prefer paying for stuff with cash. In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer, or high-end computer monitor, or a high-end TV with cash. Similar thing in France. Imagine yourself throwing a din…

> In Portugal it is illegal to buy an expensive computer (…) with cash. A few questions: 1. Are you sure it’s illegal? 2. From what value does that apply? 3. How is that enforced? 4. More importantly, who is in trouble if they do so, the buyer or the seller? I live in Portugal and have different friends that bought different brand computers on different stores on different years, both paid cash, and in no case was th…

Just did a quick search, the limit for cash payments is 3 000 euro.

https://www.dn.pt/dinheiro/interior/pagamentos-em-dinheiro-v...

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#399

Post by harperlee »

pgeorgi wrote: post #383
harperlee wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From a German point of view, a credit card is a downgrade. Not only germans use the german system. When other Europeans go to European institutions that are placed in Germany, we can't use electronic payments. A system established 34 years ago should not be an acceptable excuse for a subpar service. It is a shame (and quite fraud-risky!) to go on a taxi and have to wait 5-10 minutes for the taxi driver to carbon co…

> A system established 34 years ago should not be an acceptable excuse for a subpar service. The system was developed in those 34 years, both on user visible features (EMV card with chip&pin in 2004) and invisible (SEPA Cards Clearing, implemented in 2015). The latter allows any SEPA based participant (and those outside, apparently there's some interest in Brazil) to handle clearing of transactions compatibly. That s…

I don't disagree with you. There are other entities that solve the issue for taxi service, such as mytaxi, that pay by the rules - still "an extra layer of rent seekers" though.

But in general, even if technically possible, not a lot of businesses accept visa or mastercard - be it that the bank does not provide the service, or that they charge extra, it is not available.

Luckily PSD2 will soon open the space to more players.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#400

Post by raverbashing »

latexr wrote: post #396
raverbashing wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France > And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). N…

> Note not all cookies need the notice Is there a reference for what kind of cookies do and don’t?

http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm

> Cookies clearly exempt from consent according to the EU advisory body on data protection- WP29pdf include:

> user‑input cookies (session-id) such as first‑party cookies to keep track of the user's input when filling online forms, shopping carts, etc., for the duration of a session or persistent cookies limited to a few hours in some cases authentication cookies, to identify the user once he has logged in, for the duration of a session

> user‑centric security cookies, used to detect authentication abuses, for a limited persistent duration multimedia content player cookies, used to store technical data to play back video or audio content, for the duration of a session

> load‑balancing cookies, for the duration of session user‑interface customisation cookies such as language or font preferences, for the duration of a session (or slightly longer)

> third‑party social plug‑in content‑sharing cookies, for logged‑in members of a social network.

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