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There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

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Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#131

Post by CaptainZapp »

jondubois wrote: post #69
habosa wrote: post #35

You'll notice the entire Bitcoin community has changed tone. It used to be "this is the currency of the future, down with cash/Visa!" but now you hear "Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a store of value". The wild price swings, slow transactions, high fees, and loq merchant acceptance make it complete garbage as a currency. But as a store of value, none of those arguments apply. It only has to compete with gold bars, w…

I don't see it as a store of value. It's just a very reliable network for sending very big transactions. If you send 1 million dollars in Bitcoin, a $20 fee is negligible - The reliability of the Bitcoin network makes it worth it. For smaller transactions you should just use a different coin.

Unless your million $ is dirty you would be stupid to not use proper channels for the transfer.

Beginning with a knock on the door and two gentlemen with badges asking why you transfer so much money over - well - unconventional channels.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#132

Post by omarforgotpwd »

habosa wrote: post #35

You'll notice the entire Bitcoin community has changed tone. It used to be "this is the currency of the future, down with cash/Visa!" but now you hear "Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a store of value". The wild price swings, slow transactions, high fees, and loq merchant acceptance make it complete garbage as a currency. But as a store of value, none of those arguments apply. It only has to compete with gold bars, w…

Even a $1 bitcoin transaction costs $25 in TX fees to send. At least I can pick up a gold bar myself for free. And price volatility makes it a terrible store of value. Let’s face it: in its current state bitcoin is pretty much useless except if you hold it and the price goes up. I own some Bitcoin and plan on holding it but there’s no denying the software in its state is not usable for anything. If the devs could figure out how to make it work like Venmo, that would be absolutely huge. Perhaps another implementation will get it right first, or already has.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#133

Post by QML »

jondubois wrote: post #69
habosa wrote: post #35

You'll notice the entire Bitcoin community has changed tone. It used to be "this is the currency of the future, down with cash/Visa!" but now you hear "Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a store of value". The wild price swings, slow transactions, high fees, and loq merchant acceptance make it complete garbage as a currency. But as a store of value, none of those arguments apply. It only has to compete with gold bars, w…

I don't see it as a store of value. It's just a very reliable network for sending very big transactions. If you send 1 million dollars in Bitcoin, a $20 fee is negligible - The reliability of the Bitcoin network makes it worth it. For smaller transactions you should just use a different coin.

If it costs $20 to move a million dollars, then why not use a $30 wire transfer? The way I see it is that Bitcoin's advantage should be to move any amount of value across the internet for a low flat fee; anything less then the hassle of using the Bitcoin network outweighs the benefit.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#134

Post by guitarbill »

dubin wrote: post #112
randomsearch wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the volatility not make it a bad store of value?! Surely by definition that is exactly why it is a bad store of value!

“How can Bitcoin be a good store of value if its price is so volatile?” http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2017/12/can...

Quoting some articles does not an argument make. The summary argument:

> Volatility is a feature of Bitcoin, not a bug, and that is in part for reasons that have nothing to do with speculation or bubbliness, but rather follow from the contours of the utility function. It’s that latter point that hardly anyone understands.

I'd argue this is might be correct, but also irrelevant, as many people involved in bitcoin either wanted to use it as a payment method, or are only in it for speculation, or money laundering/covert transferring of wealth.

How useful is a value store where it's very difficult to actually get the value out remains to be seen, or what effect such a realisation will have on the price.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#135

Post by blunte »

tehlike wrote: post #82
blunte wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The utility of bitcoin depends on your perspective. As a means of value exchange, high fees make it less useful. But as a store of value, high fees matter little.

Why cant something be both a store of value and be medium of transaction?

I never said it couldn't be :). But with bitcoin's significant transaction fees, it's much less useful as a medium of transaction (for small value transactions).

Remember just a year or two ago when it was cool to buy your coffee at a shop that took bitcoin? You wouldn't do that now, since your coffee would cost the equivalent of $20 ($4 for the coffee, $16 for the transaction fee).

It's also painful to realize how much bitcoin some of us have spent on little things in the past. I've had some coffees that are now worth $300 a cup had I treated the btc as value store rather than currency ;).

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#136

Post by prepend »

owenversteeg wrote: post #94
gomox wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most wallets allow you get out of this situation with a clever feature. What you do is raise the insufficient fee after the fact by issuing a new transaction that is dependent on the first one, and adding a large enough fee to the second one. This is known as "child pays for parent" in BTC lingo. That being said, the fee for a good transaction now is around $22 so it might not be worth doing for your $50 send.

Unfortunately in a child pays for parent scenario you need to pay double fees. Otherwise it's not worthwhile for the miner to confirm both transactions in order to only get one fee. So they'd need to pay $44 in fees in order to free their $50.

The miner only needs to confirm the replacement transaction as the parent will get purged from the mempool. There’s still only one transaction recorded on the blockchain.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#137

Post by SauciestGNU »

45h34jh53k4j wrote: post #15

This is referring to the minimum cost in fees for a transaction to get copied from the mempool to a block. Only when a transaction is in a block is it a valid transfer of bitcoin. Its nothing to do with trading or exchange rates or energy costs or fiat. Bitcoin is working exactly the same as it has always, however now because of the backlog, transaction fees are very high. In the order of Western Union + Visa Fees +…

I recently made a transaction in bitcoin basically cashing out some change that had dramatically increased in value. I made a $150-ish purchase and paid a $15 transaction fee. It took about 90 seconds for my transaction to be broadcast to the network and confirmed by multiple nodes. Yes, a 10% transaction fee is incredibly high, but I was spending essentially free money, and the utility provided to my by the vendor I chose is high.

It would seem that getting your transactions confirmed is an auction of sorts at this point. While this is certainly not optimal for a currency, it seems like a problem with a solution somewhere.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#138

Post by tehlike »

jameskegel wrote: post #129
tehlike wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/2056 Are you sure?

Subaddresses have not been integrated into a tagged release yet. We can discuss hypotheticals though, if you prefer.

Isnt it the same for multisig?

You didnt say it is not yet in a tagged release, just mentioned no it isnt subadress but multisig, ehich tells me you had no idea

Either way, it doesnt matter.

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#139

Post by majewsky »

vkou wrote: post #105
habosa wrote: post #35

You'll notice the entire Bitcoin community has changed tone. It used to be "this is the currency of the future, down with cash/Visa!" but now you hear "Bitcoin is not a currency, it's a store of value". The wild price swings, slow transactions, high fees, and loq merchant acceptance make it complete garbage as a currency. But as a store of value, none of those arguments apply. It only has to compete with gold bars, w…

Gold bars don't require the electricity output of a small country to keep running. Although I suppose digging them up also has serious environmental consequences.

This made me briefly consider the real-world environmental impact of the automated mining operation on my Minecraft server. :)

Re: There are now more than 200k pending Bitcoin transactions

#140

Post by tehlike »

blunte wrote: post #135
tehlike wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why cant something be both a store of value and be medium of transaction?

I never said it couldn't be :). But with bitcoin's significant transaction fees, it's much less useful as a medium of transaction (for small value transactions). Remember just a year or two ago when it was cool to buy your coffee at a shop that took bitcoin? You wouldn't do that now, since your coffee would cost the equivalent of $20 ($4 for the coffee, $16 for the transaction fee). It's also painful to realize how m…

Sure but hopefully if all this nonsense ends with couple stable currencies, the price will stabilize and younwill be able tobuy your coffee with bitcoins again or moneroj, or hell if i know.
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