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Google Maps' Moat

justinobeirne.com

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Re: Google Maps' Moat

#201

Post by adrianN »

ghaff wrote: post #146
jonknee wrote: post #111

Google also has a giant lead in trails / feature names. I hike a ton and Google has been adding trails at a brisk pace. I just checked the Snoqualmie Pass area about an hour outside of Seattle and Apple Maps has almost no trails, named mountains or named lakes (even quite large ones). A few trails show up as unnamed roads. There's also no relief shading to tell where the mountains are or a terrain view for contour li…

Although I find, in a lot of places, that OpenStreetMaps is a lot better than Google for hiking trails.

OSM often has things that are barely more than animal tracks. It's pretty awesome when you want to go exploring.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#202

Post by saagarjha »

klodolph wrote: post #148
ovao wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it weren't for the fairly deep tendrils Apple Maps has in iOS itself, or if it were possible to change the 'default' maps app to a competitor's, there wouldn't be a particularly compelling reason. As it is, however, using a third-party app sometimes means awkwardly copying and pasting addresses, not having a turn-by-turn map present on the lock screen and so on, so there are compelling reasons against using third-…

These limitations are really a byproduct of the deal falling apart between Apple and Google. Apparently, Google wanted access to more user data in exchange for adding turn-by-turn directions to Google Maps. They could not reach a deal, so Apple Maps was hastily created and Google Maps was booted from the default image. In the end I can understand the limitations on the lock screen because it can be tricky to figure o…

> In the end I can understand the limitations on the lock screen because it can be tricky to figure out the right way to give third-party apps special permissions like that

Interestingly enough, I did some exploring into how Apple was doing this and it seems like there's already an (internal) "API" for bundles of code that work on the home screen and lock screen. Currently it's taken advantage of by apps like Assistant (Siri), ChatKit (I assume this is Quick Reply notifications?), Wallet (which shows up on the lock screen), and the Wi-Fi picker in addition to Maps. Check out /System/Library/SpringBoardPlugins if you're curious.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#203

Post by toomanybeersies »

jld wrote: post #7

Google Maps is my pick for the coolest website on the internet. Truly a killer app.

I remember when Google maps first came out in like 2005 or so. It was a truely revolutionary app.

Not just for being one of the first apps to be properly dynamic and AJAX based, but also because it was possibly the first time that we had access to an entire world of satellite maps online, something previously reserved for large corporations and governments.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#204

Post by saagarjha »

klodolph wrote: post #135
irrational wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem for Apple is why would anyone want to use "good enough" when the alternatives are better, free, and easily available?

I don't understand why this would be a problem. Apple Maps is not competing with Google Maps. Apple Maps is simply there so Apple can provide turn-by-turn navigation out of the box without paying Google for it. The fact that Google Maps is free to consumers is irrelevant, because it's not free for Apple to bundle with iOS.

> Apple Maps is not competing with Google Maps.

Uhh, it 100% is. The fact that I don't use Google Maps and use Apple Maps instead means that it's in direct competition.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#205

Post by mark-r »

niftich wrote: post #137
Stratoscope wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all true, but of course there will always be a few missing features that seem so obvious and useful that you wonder why they still don't have them. For me it's one or two announcements of the actual destination address at the end of the drive. If it's not an address I'm familiar with and not a business with a sign out front, by the time I get there I've usually forgotten the street number! But when I arrive a…

I usually hear "your destination is on the right", and become aware to having zoomed by the place. 5 minutes of U-turning ensues.

My biggest complaint about Google Maps is that it changes its scale as you get closer to a turn. You try to judge how close you are by how fast you've been approaching it, and suddenly you find you've zoomed past.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#206

Post by diggernet »

dillondoyle wrote: post #173
taneq wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet we have Waymo building 2cm-resolution maps and not operating outside of mapped areas, and (more scarily) Tesla geotagging false positives where Autopilot misidentifies some roadside feature and panic brakes.

If all the cars are always mapping and collecting data will maps ever be out of date?

Yes. Cast your mind to lightly-traveled rural roads. If you are driving one of the many unpaved roads in Arizona during flash flood season, and the last car through was a couple hours ago, will you bet your life that the road is still there?

But hey, that's not a realistic danger in the city, right? Well, look up the sinkhole named "Steve" that opened up in the middle of an Oakland, CA freeway.

Then there's Highway 1, which is known for landslides. Not to mention that little incident with the Bay Bridge back in '89...

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#207

Post by Tempest1981 »

_s4qd wrote: post #127
jonknee wrote: post #111

Google also has a giant lead in trails / feature names. I hike a ton and Google has been adding trails at a brisk pace. I just checked the Snoqualmie Pass area about an hour outside of Seattle and Apple Maps has almost no trails, named mountains or named lakes (even quite large ones). A few trails show up as unnamed roads. There's also no relief shading to tell where the mountains are or a terrain view for contour li…

I've added a lot of those places manually through the "Add a missing place" in the menu. The review process either takes 2 days or stays in limbo forever. Google maps also gamified the contribution process so you can get internet points for improving their maps.

I was curious about these "internet points", and found this: https://techcrunch.com/2017/06/13/google-maps-updates-it-loc...

"... guides who get to level four will now get three months of free access to Google Play Music and 75 percent off rentals in the Google Play Movie store."

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#208

Post by cheeze »

snarf wrote: post #189
sytelus wrote: post #142

Many people don't realize why Google maps are so much better than anything out there. I would actually give lot of credit to Marissa Mayer who suddenly became in charge of maps from otherwise more higher position. Thanks to her influence in Google SLT and ability to make impressive arguments, she was able to make a case for maps as core pillar in Google's offering and consequently obtain huge investment and large tal…

Google has plenty of low revenue, unprofitable products, some of which are social charities like Google Scholar. I don't think Mayer deserves as much credit as a visionary as you are suggesting. It was more about empire building after a sudden demotion and not paying increasing licensing costs to a third party vendor for turn-by-turn data. But I agree that the end result is a mapping platform that is far ahead of any…

I agree with you but don't think that Google Scholar and Maps are even close to the same magnitude of product.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#209

Post by saagarjha »

jonknee wrote: post #111

Google also has a giant lead in trails / feature names. I hike a ton and Google has been adding trails at a brisk pace. I just checked the Snoqualmie Pass area about an hour outside of Seattle and Apple Maps has almost no trails, named mountains or named lakes (even quite large ones). A few trails show up as unnamed roads. There's also no relief shading to tell where the mountains are or a terrain view for contour li…

> There's also no relief shading to tell where the mountains are or a terrain view for contour lines.

At least in my experience, this is done to keep the view uncluttered. The data is still there, and turning on Satellite view+3D shows the mountains and hills.

Re: Google Maps' Moat

#210

Post by Aramgutang »

irrational wrote: post #133

One thing I really appreciate about Google Maps is how accurate the times are. There have been numerous times where google maps says is will take x minutes to get there and I think "Nah, I'll be able to get there faster than that." Nope, I've never had google maps be off by more than a minute or so. I think it must take into account not just road conditions and traffic, but also how much I am likely to go over the sp…

Very much agree, with only one caveat: unpaved roads.

Google Maps estimates are wildly off when parts of the drive are along unpaved roads in Australia. It assumes a ludicrously low speed of 30-40 km/h for such roads, when most cars are able to go 80+ km/h, depending on the road. I've beaten Google arrival estimates by more than 2 hours on some drives.

When planning drives involving unpaved sections, we usually ask Google for the estimates for the paved sections (which are generally accurate), then estimate the unpaved sections based on the distance and a guess at a reasonable speed for the road.

I've also noticed that Google is much better at estimating speeds along unpaved roads that have mobile signal coverage. It seems like it uses user-generated driving data for them to some extent, but not at all for the ones without coverage. This leads me to think that they accept real-time user data, but will not "queue" the gathered data on the app for uploading later, when mobile signal is available.

This seems like a strange decision, given that unpaved roads and lack of mobile coverage correlate by nature. I suppose it's probably a security-minded decision, to prevent malicious agents from easily uploading bad data. Or maybe a quirk of the way Waze data plays into this.

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