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How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

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Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#51

Post by itronitron »

jefe78 wrote: post #3

I don't understand the logic of this article. My side projects tend to be efforts in self employment, not 'click bait' for an employer. While not everyone has the same approach, this article seems to imply the only value of side projects is for future employers. I'd hate for people to get the wrong impression about the value of these projects.

Yeah, side projects should be for pursuing personal interests... which has the side benefit that if you happen to later be interviewing for a job and mention your side project it will be much easier to talk about.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#52

Post by itronitron »

mundo wrote: post #25
kraftman wrote: post #7

It would be interesting to know what proportion of employers even look at your Github, let alone dig into detail enough to investigate your side projects to this level. I work on quite a few side projects in my own time because I enjoy it, but I've never been asked about my projects on Github or my blog.

I always do. For mid-to-senior it's more out of curiosity, but for entry-level it can impact my decision, especially for bootcamp grads. I know the prevailing sentiment on HN is sometimes that hiring managers like making candidates jump through hoops to make themselves feel important, but I don't think that's the issue here. It's simply that someone who came to programming late in life is at a severe disadvantage com…

Whenever I interview candidates I am always looking for things to talk to about with them so if I can find information on previous projects or publications of theirs then that is a good entry point to learn about their expertise.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#53

Post by itronitron »

symlinkk wrote: post #38

Why do I have to build side projects and memorize algorithm trivia to prove to employers that I know enough to do a job? What's the value of my degree if it doesn't tell employers that I know what I'm talking about? Why are software engineers the only ones with this problem (can you imagine if doctors had to memorize random trivia to get a job)?

Apparently there are a lot of people applying to developer positions that make it to the technical interview and don't know how to code. I have never encountered this personally, probably because the people I have interviewed have always had prior work experience as developers.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#54

Post by flukus »

symlinkk wrote: post #38

Why do I have to build side projects and memorize algorithm trivia to prove to employers that I know enough to do a job? What's the value of my degree if it doesn't tell employers that I know what I'm talking about? Why are software engineers the only ones with this problem (can you imagine if doctors had to memorize random trivia to get a job)?

> Why are software engineers the only ones with this problem (can you imagine if doctors had to memorize random trivia to get a job)?

Because we don't have professional organisations like doctors and lawyers do.

> What's the value of my degree if it doesn't tell employers that I know what I'm talking about?

Well there's an open ended question. For one, assuming you went to a reputable university, the degree says that you understand the foundations of computer science, which isn't particularly relevant to what most of us spend our days doing. Understanding computer science fundamentals isn't a huge help when your building a CRUD web form and sticking data in the database.

Then there's the profit driven centers that universities have become, it's in their best interest not to fail anyone, that would decrease their revenue. I've had interns that are freshly graduated with masters degrees that would fail a CS101 test if you put it in front of them.

> Why do I have to build side projects and memorize algorithm trivia to prove to employers that I know enough to do a job?

Because employers are trying to compensate for the issues I mentioned in the cheapest, quickest way possible. Sure they don't do a great job of it, but neither does anyone else in the pipeline.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#55

Post by toomanybeersies »

corporateslave3 wrote: post #31
dundercoder wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had never even heard of HackerRank before applying at a few places. I was supposed to write a binary search tree algorithm without using anything except the language docs. I rarely write anything new without a quick search, it wastes valuable time reinventing the wheel.

I had this as well, an off by one error on a binary search resulted in a rejection...

I had a really good tech interview a while back, where I had to reverse a string in place, and then reverse only the words in a string in place (so "this is a test" => "siht si a tset")

Anyway, I had a couple of off by errors. The interviewer asked me if I was sure I didn't have any, so I had a look through, stepped through the code, and lo and behold, I did. While I was doing this process, we ended up having a discussion about how unit testing would help avoid problems like off by 1 errors, and would make iterating through the code and refactoring a lot easier.

That's what a good tech interview should look like, not expecting someone to write perfect code, first time.

On a side note, I didn't end up getting the job, since they had apparently hired someone the day before I came in for the interview. Apparently I managed to apply for the job the day they closed applications, but they asked if I wanted to interview anyway, out of courtesy.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#56

Post by s3nnyy »

My own experience as tech recruiter, who looks at dozens of resumes a day, is that I only take some minutes to review your publicly available code.

If I see commented code, rough violation of coding standards etc., that is bad and I will ask about it.

So if you share side projects, remember that it gives the interviewer "attack surface" to disqualify you. However, good interviewers won't look 20% for your weaknesses and 80% for your strengths.

If you are a regular open source contributor, I might use this information to argue that you are be better than other engineers who don't regularly code in their free time.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#57

Post by bloudermilk »

dheera wrote: post #40
jefe78 wrote: post #3

I don't understand the logic of this article. My side projects tend to be efforts in self employment, not 'click bait' for an employer. While not everyone has the same approach, this article seems to imply the only value of side projects is for future employers. I'd hate for people to get the wrong impression about the value of these projects.

And many times, my side projects are my way of relaxing. Some people relax by partying, some relax by walking their dog, some relax by spending time with their kids. And my choice of relaxation time is often just building something interesting that has zero self-employment or market value, but is just funny or cool. It is refreshing to do something for pure happiness and fun, after dealing with the unhappy real world…

Like you, I find it extremely relaxing to build pointless things. Do you have the same trouble I do in explaining that this isn't "work" to people close to you?

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#58

Post by darepublic »

jefe78 wrote: post #3

I don't understand the logic of this article. My side projects tend to be efforts in self employment, not 'click bait' for an employer. While not everyone has the same approach, this article seems to imply the only value of side projects is for future employers. I'd hate for people to get the wrong impression about the value of these projects.

What's you got there is a field of dreams. Employers will love the fact you didn't even want to impress them.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#59

Post by adanto6840 »

bloudermilk wrote: post #57
dheera wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And many times, my side projects are my way of relaxing. Some people relax by partying, some relax by walking their dog, some relax by spending time with their kids. And my choice of relaxation time is often just building something interesting that has zero self-employment or market value, but is just funny or cool. It is refreshing to do something for pure happiness and fun, after dealing with the unhappy real world…

Like you, I find it extremely relaxing to build pointless things. Do you have the same trouble I do in explaining that this isn't "work" to people close to you?

My "side project" actually pays the bills yet I'm not sure if my wife will ever fully understand that, despite it technically being "work" (and despite some rare complaints/bad days, like anything else), I actually thrive off of the challenges and sincerely enjoy it. And so working >8 hours on it isn't just because I "have" to, it's often because the challenge is so fun & thrilling that I _want_ to.

Of course, balance is important and I won't try to fool anyone -- it's something I'll likely always be working to improve.

Re: How to not waste time on a side project when trying to get a job

#60

Post by pacaro »

s3nnyy wrote: post #56

My own experience as tech recruiter, who looks at dozens of resumes a day, is that I only take some minutes to review your publicly available code. If I see commented code, rough violation of coding standards etc., that is bad and I will ask about it. So if you share side projects, remember that it gives the interviewer "attack surface" to disqualify you. However, good interviewers won't look 20% for your weaknesses…

Be careful, the coding in free time is an interesting signal to be sure, but considering one engineer to be better than another purely on the basis that they code in their free time is anti-diverse
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