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WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

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Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#281
post #166
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe with France's current laws, and the incoming EU GDPR, you must provide the opt-out as the same manner as the agreement was made. If that means you clicked an "I agree" button, then you must be able to easily find a page where you click, "I no longer agree".

More importantly, with GDPR you are not allowed to deny customers service even if they choose not to share their data.

... Deny service if the customer no longer grants you access to personal data not essential for you to provide the service. A delivery address is essential in order to be able to deliver goods, shoe size is essential in order to deliver shoes - shoe size and address isn't essential in order to allow pseudonymous messaging.

You are in general, not allowed to store personal data without "proper purpose" even with content - the GDPR has provisions against data mining.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#282
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that slowing the uptake of USB-C with its standardized Power Delivery fast charging? What does Google ship with Pixels? The same USB-C fast charger and USB-C cable, then toss in a micro-USB to USB-C adapter for regulatory compliance?

My Nexus 6P (France, Dec. 2015) came with 1) USB-C fast charger 2) USB-C cable 3) USB-C to USB-A cable No adapter whatsoever. I assume it's the exact same as anywhere in the world. Therefore it seems USB-C is considered an acceptable next standard for phone charging in the EU. On a side-related note, I wonder why Apple was never subjected to charging standards in the EU.

It was voluntary. The EU said sort this out or we will make a standard and require it. I think iPhones did come with an adapter for the standard charger at some point.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. I'm European, and I sure miss my perceived greater freedom and innovation of economical activities in the US. Things like having UBER banned for example in France or Germany completely throws me off. And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. And those damn cookie notices!! Because they show up in every page, everybo…

> And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's because we had our own system established in 1984 (ELV, electronic direct debit based on the EC cards mentioned elsewhere). From a German point of view, a credit card is a downgrade. - The system covered all German banks (private banks, public banks = Sparkassen, credit unions) because they got their act together and se…

Thank you very much for this background information, I was ignorant of it.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#284
post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be the law everywhere. The US, on the other hand, believes it is OK to provide ALL your personal information to big companies, see the debacle of Equifax that exposed data from most Americans to hackers throughout the world.

Unpopular opinion: information should not be the property of anybody. You don't own your data, you own what it is stored on. Copyright, Patents, and other IP law is invalid application of property rights and nobody should be able to say how anybody uses data they possess with the exception of preemptive contractual agreements.

OK. Here's a public album of your home porn on imgur, it has 0.5 M views today. No recourse for you. Happy?

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#285
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last I heard, Uber works just fine in France > And in Germany you don't know yet what's living without cash and only with a credit card. That's on the Germans (especially Berliners), rest of Europe uses cards a lot more. And I'm glad the US finally took their head out of the sand and are using Chip Cards But yeah the cookie notice is pretty much useless (and I think it's been implemented badly by websites as well). N…

The service available in France as UberX is what is known as UberBlack in the rest of the world - a black car and a professional driver (also applies to Pool). Uber in France is effectively a taxi company with an app (which is not a trivial improvement, but that's a separate discussion). This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and hap…

I'm not sure I understand. - both uberx and uber pool are legal in France - uber black elsewhere is a luxury service, which French uberx is not - maybe we don't have the same definition of professional driver, but you need them to be professionals for insurance and tax reasons. - there has been a direct rail link from CDG to central Paris since 1981. It's called RER B.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#286
post #134

EU is one of my best hopes when it comes to privacy and really wish they start going after tech behemoths. I have given up on US authorities doing anything to reign them in. And policies in other significant countries (eg. China) would be even worse for user privacy.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world…

Apparently, the cookie notice is only supposed to show up if the cookies are not related to the site’s purpose; e.g. cookies that keep you logged in or similar are perfectly fine and don’t need a warning. The issue is that every website began using cookies for tracking, so the warnings jut became noise. It’s sad: this law was reasonable, but advertisers were able to completely subvert it into an annoyance for users, and in doing so, prevented the real problem from being solved.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#287
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The service available in France as UberX is what is known as UberBlack in the rest of the world - a black car and a professional driver (also applies to Pool). Uber in France is effectively a taxi company with an app (which is not a trivial improvement, but that's a separate discussion). This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and hap…

>This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and happily embraced; // When I (UK) think of France in this context I think they're strongly in to workers rights and that probably Uber aren't (based on the kerfuffle in London)? That makes it completely unsurprising to me that Uber wouldn't be doing well in France?? Uber is super-capitalism,…

I'm not talking about politically, but about philosophy or spirit. Compared to the Anglosphere megacities, there is a certain comradeship amongst the French (which you find in other countries, like Japan), a sense of shared fate and community spirit, the idea that this goes before profit and efficiency.

The use of the word communism was deliberately ambiguous and a bit of a pun given the leaning of a sizeable portion of the population in the 20th century. "Commune" means a small town in French, and "commun" can mean "that belongs to all" or "shared".

The French job market is ultra-regulated which makes it relatively rigid with many people left out (and great conditions for the connected). I remember someone interviewing for selling ice-creams - there were 22 finalists! And most graduates will do year-long, low paid internships outside the regulated, cushy full time job system, which like post-docs in US academia can repeat ad infinitum if the economy is bad.

As everywhere else, UberX/Pool allows the marginalised to get an easy job that's a step up from pizza delivery, whilst drastically expanding the market for rides (and I've seen this play in a lot of countries). This is particularly helpful for the numerous people juggling many jobs, and parents (especially single parents) who appreciate the flexibility.

The market was already captured by a single player in France, the worst possible way - in a similar fashion as healthcare in the US. Other markets that have been completely captured by capitalist foreign mega corporations include web search, browsers, social networking, computers, fast food, fashion, real estate supplies, the auto industry (Renault and Peugeot are French only in name at this point)... I guess at least the Rousselet were French?

Perhaps it is time to see things in grey instead of black and white, to avoid labels, to judge companies and actions by their net welfare effect instead of saying "he's not from my team so he's bad" or "she's from my team so she's good" (I'm thinking of you, Democrats in the last election). Almost forgot - reduction in wages? The taxi companies employed many drivers on survival wages (particularly those with difficult immigration situation) and pocketed the difference. Uber's transparency is a net gain for the worker (and the state, which does not get tax-evaded).

UberPop was popular because it allowed people to car pool easily without talking about money, and decongested city centers particularly at rush hour. Enabling widespread, safe car sharing seems to have been perceived as a good thing given the high number of users. I never heard a bad comment about Uber from normal French people (drivers or riders), always from taxi drivers or the news.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#288
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The service available in France as UberX is what is known as UberBlack in the rest of the world - a black car and a professional driver (also applies to Pool). Uber in France is effectively a taxi company with an app (which is not a trivial improvement, but that's a separate discussion). This is strange because France is, philosophically, a "communist" country and sharing economy innovation is usually welcome and hap…

I'm not sure I understand. - both uberx and uber pool are legal in France - uber black elsewhere is a luxury service, which French uberx is not - maybe we don't have the same definition of professional driver, but you need them to be professionals for insurance and tax reasons. - there has been a direct rail link from CDG to central Paris since 1981. It's called RER B.

It's confusing because the terms are different internationally.

The RER B is not a direct train link - it's equivalent to taking the Piccadilly Line from Heathrow, you will take a long time through many stations and share with commuters. Think instead Hong Kong's express train or the Narita Express in Tokyo: a fast, clean, premium service that takes you from airport to city centre core locations in a couple of stops (the Heathrow Express is actually pretty bad for this as it arrives somewhere far from most places of interest which is why they're building CrossRail).

UberX/Pool in most of the world (although this is changing - e.g. license now required in Singapore) means the everyday salaryman who happens to commute by car and decides to pick people up on the way to bump up his end of month. Many people end up doing this full time but usually in between jobs. In some countries it's lucrative enough to become a career.

How nice an X/Pool car is depends on the local market. In Singapore it used to be old, entry level Toyotas but as the rental company business improved it became small SUVs (like the Honda Vezel). In Sydney you get anything from a Subaru WRX to an E-class.

Black in most of the world means "professional driver, new-ish sedan used for professional transport" and that depends again on the price locally. In Ho Chi Minh City it's a local market 8 seater van (like a bare bones Honda Odyssey with leather seats). In Singapore you can get the odd Mercedes E-class. In Hong Kong you get many Teslas, with the rest Audi A6 or larger.

In France, X/Pool now use professional drivers, and the cars are sedans: Renault Laguna, Volvo S60, etc. In that sense, the service is equivalent to Black in the rest of the world.

I agree about insurance and tax, but it really depends how you implement it. In Singapore, the license is very cheap and requires a few hours of training (for safety and to know your obligations). This is a stark contrast to 300k+ EUR/USD medallions.

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#289
post #154
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm torn on this. On the one hand, I agree, the EU legislates privacy to a degree that no other political entity does as far as I'm aware, but on the other hand, they often do so with poorly designed policies. As an example, I'd point to the cookie notices that appear on almost every major website, which must have absorbed, globally, many careers worth of man-hours to implement while offering virtually no real-world…

I don't even understand how a cookie notice is equivalent to consent [1]. Anyone who consumed the content in this message agrees to pay this user 1 BTC [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTTP_cookie#EU_cookie_directiv...

It isn't. If you look at the EU's information about it [1], you must be able to refuse processing of information that's not necessary for the functioning of the site. Virtually no site outside the EU's own ones does that. Ironically, there are some that have them even though the only cookies they use are ones that are necessary for the functioning of the site, and so are exempt.

Note that this isn't just about cookies. It's pretty much any information being sent from the user's computer or stored on the user's computer: "Member States shall ensure that the use of electronic communications networks to store information or to gain access to information stored in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that the subscriber or user concerned is provided with clear and comprehensive information in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC, inter alia about the purposes of the processing, and is offered the right to refuse such processing by the data controller."

As far as I can tell, this is mostly because member states capitulated before online advertising exchanges (it's a directive, not a regulation, so it is implemented by member states) and allowed them to work around the clear intent of the directive.

[1] http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm

Re: WhatsApp told to stop sharing user data with Facebook by French authorities

#290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As the article says, under GDPR (coming in mid-2018) they will be able to fine 4% of global revenue, or 20m EUR, whichever is larger [1]. I'm not certain that this particular case is covered by the GDPR, but if it is, then that will compel action. If Facebook declines to pay these fines, then presumably their execs would be arrested if they ever travelled anywhere in the EU. While FB can claim that it “is only subjec…

Or you'll see FB/others decide the EU isn't worth it over time. It's interesting how many people here believe that there is no other possibility other than "we get what we want to happen". Your faith is, IMHO, misplaced. There are many cases in history where other companies decided it wasn't worth the cost of doing business in certain countries. Or they just successfully coopted the governments!

Yeah, we already saw how that went on China [1].

The reality is, no board will in any circumstance quit doing business in the largest economic area in the world by far [2], at least if they want to keep their job. Thinking otherwise is just naïve, I'm afraid.

In fact, my impression is that these policies encourage all involved actors into developing a better business model that can accommodate different sensibilities, and hopefully explore new revenue sources. I'm sure something good will come out out of this for FB and the rest of data moguls. The 'we sell your privacy for peanuts' is a rat race no matter how you look at it, and it is in fact slowly declining for everything but mobile according to some [3].

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/13/business/google-ai-china....

[2] http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/eu-position-in-world-trade/

[3] http://www.businessinsider.com/online-ads-revenues-going-to-...

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