Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains • Hacker News Board

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#21

Post by cookiecaper » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:42 PM UTC

This is the ground on which the war against Google, Facebook, et al is fought, but open-source solutions like Firefox are going to need to find a better way to monetize if they want to win. All this does is firm up the resolve of user identity resellers like FB and Google to see that Firefox gets destroyed, and it demonstrates why tech eventually all boils down to platform control.

With Facebook code intruding into every nook and cranny of the web via React and Google's position as digital Sauron, monitoring and parsing out your search history, watch history, all phone activity, emails, SMSes, and more, user identity resellers are a formidable foe, and Mozilla is in its familiar position as the David of noble, non-moneyed interests challenging the user-hostile Goliath.

Firefox may find unlikely allies in Microsoft and Apple, since these two companies still make at least some money selling an actual product instead of just slurping up information about their users and repackaging it. The best thing Mozilla could do is convince Apple and Microsoft to give up their independent lackluster browser implementations and ship Firefox as the default instead.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#22

Post by mquander » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:43 PM UTC

OnlyRepliesToBS wrote: post #18

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

So the identified trackers' requests are.. merely delayed? Wowwie! It's a great justification for building a database of perceived trackers though. Lots of useful info to slurp. A better idea: DO NOT LOAD TRACKERS PERIOD. EDIT: Look how the crowd treats alternative opinions. Can't have that, can we?

There's an opt-in "tracking protection" checkbox in Firefox you can click that doesn't load them at all.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#23

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

iscoelho wrote: post #6

fooyc wrote: post #5

Is this net neutrality compliant ?

Net neutrality is in regards to the internet carrier, not the browser (or client). The browser is irrelevant to net neutrality.

>The browser is irrelevant to net neutrality. //

It's not the currently spoken of Net Neutrality, but it's relevant to the neutral carriage of data over the internet. If browser companies pick and choose whose data to delay (or otherwise alter) then they have the power to bias the web - Firefox could always delay scripts from other companies than Google, for example, in order to preference their business associate. They presumably aren't informing users, or requiring users to enable the function.

In short it seems highly pertinent in the net neutrality debate, to me, despite perhaps not having reached problematic levels and despite not being the specific form of neutrality that has erstwhile been grabbing the headlines.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#24

Post by mquander » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

peterwwillis wrote: post #16

marten-de-vries wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Scripts are delayed only when added dynamically or as async. Tracking images are always delayed. This is legal according all HTML specifications and it’s assumed that well built sites will not be affected regarding functionality. (emphasis mine)

I don't know about you, but I don't browse the World Wide Implements-The-Specification-Perfectly Web.

If you aren't complaining because it violates the spec, what are you complaining about? Is any change to any detail about how a browser works necessarily bad?

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#25

Post by flukus » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:46 PM UTC

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

Trouble is the amount of popular websites that simply don't care how long the page takes to load, 30 seconds would be acceptable to many as long as they get their advertising dollars.

Users won't know who to blame. They might blame the site but they're just as likely to blame Firefox, Microsoft, their ISP or a virus. There needs to be a display saying "hey, this site is slow because it's tracking you in 15 different ways, would you like to disable this permanently?".

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#26

Post by luhn » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

OnlyRepliesToBS wrote: post #18

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

So the identified trackers' requests are.. merely delayed? Wowwie! It's a great justification for building a database of perceived trackers though. Lots of useful info to slurp. A better idea: DO NOT LOAD TRACKERS PERIOD. EDIT: Look how the crowd treats alternative opinions. Can't have that, can we?

That is an available option as well. In preferences, under "Privacy & Security", set "Tracking Protection" to "Always".

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#27

Post by jancsika » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:47 PM UTC

Is there a config setting for the delay period in double precision units? :)

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#28

Post by marten-de-vries » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:51 PM UTC

cookiecaper wrote: post #21

This is the ground on which the war against Google, Facebook, et al is fought, but open-source solutions like Firefox are going to need to find a better way to monetize if they want to win. All this does is firm up the resolve of user identity resellers like FB and Google to see that Firefox gets destroyed, and it demonstrates why tech eventually all boils down to platform control. With Facebook code intruding into e…

I agree it would be great if other browsers implemented this as well, but you lose me at:

> The best thing Mozilla could do is convince Apple and Microsoft to give up their independent lackluster browser implementations and ship Firefox as the default instead.

Multiple independent implementations are of vital importance to the web. We've seen it with IE6 before, and having two browsers is cutting it too close.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#29

Post by peterwwillis » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:52 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #17

peterwwillis wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about you, but I don't browse the World Wide Implements-The-Specification-Perfectly Web.

You should expect it, though.

I have both written software for standards-based protocols, and used software written to standards-based protocols, so no, I would not expect it.

Not breaking backwards compatibility for existing users is the golden rule of software support. When an unfortunate pull-requester attempts to break backwards compatibility with Linus Torvalds' software, he has some very choice language to complain about the practice. If they were attempting to break backwards compatibility just because they dis-liked some particular app or service or use case, he might even use foul language.

Fortunately, I am a very well behaved and good little HN user, so I will not repeat that language here. But imagine what Linus would have said, really loudly, with all capital letters. There. That's better.

Re: Firefox 57 delays requests to tracking domains

#30

Post by legohead » Tue, Dec 19, 2017, 9:53 PM UTC

marten-de-vries wrote: post #2

Interesting approach. I hope more browser vendors will adopt it. It comes with an additional advantage: if a website still needs to function when tracking domains are delayed a second or so, they likely will function too with said domain completely disabled (e.g. using extensions). Sounds like a win from a user perspective.

This shouldn't be up to the browser. He even notes edge cases where this performs unexpectedly -- unacceptable.

If this is such an issue and can actually be a performance increase, then someone should release a script with the same functionality. Or optionally make it an opt-in option in settings.