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Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

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Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#11

Post by distantsounds »

yerasame wrote: post #9
distantsounds wrote: post #7

This stuff has been documented in private circles for over a decade now, and hasn't been made public because these games aren't available to play outside of owning a cabinet in Japan or acquiring the data via less-legit methods. While it's a fun exercise to explore, the real-world application is sadly limited to grey-market implementations that Konami frowns upon, which reinforces why the exposure has been limited.

If you're in said private circles, you might recognize the author.

The author is not in any 'private circle', he just happened to come across data and started poking at it.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#12

Post by csydas »

distantsounds wrote: post #10
RealityCzech wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Information wants to be free.

Not sure how releasing this information benefits anyone. The games are sold and distributed by Konami directly, and only to licensed arcades.

Well, the process itself regardless of the data is interesting. Likewise, surely for archival purposes once the games are decommissioned and people want to preserve them it will be useful to have, no?

I find your response just a bit weird; it's a nice break down of niche and likely easily lost technology once Konami et. al. are done with it. It's a nice read, well written, serves those looking to archive these games in the future, and also is a great high level overview of the reverse engineering process.

Is the issue that it has no immediate benefit to you?

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#13

Post by distantsounds »

csydas wrote: post #12
distantsounds wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how releasing this information benefits anyone. The games are sold and distributed by Konami directly, and only to licensed arcades.

Well, the process itself regardless of the data is interesting. Likewise, surely for archival purposes once the games are decommissioned and people want to preserve them it will be useful to have, no? I find your response just a bit weird; it's a nice break down of niche and likely easily lost technology once Konami et. al. are done with it. It's a nice read, well written, serves those looking to archive these games…

Sure, when the service and games are decommissioned it would make sense. But Konami is still churning these games out every 9 months to a year.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#14

Post by yerasame »

distantsounds wrote: post #11
yerasame wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in said private circles, you might recognize the author.

The author is not in any 'private circle', he just happened to come across data and started poking at it.

Didn't say he's in private circles -- only that you might recognize the author if you were.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#15

Post by yerasame »

csydas wrote: post #12
distantsounds wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how releasing this information benefits anyone. The games are sold and distributed by Konami directly, and only to licensed arcades.

Well, the process itself regardless of the data is interesting. Likewise, surely for archival purposes once the games are decommissioned and people want to preserve them it will be useful to have, no? I find your response just a bit weird; it's a nice break down of niche and likely easily lost technology once Konami et. al. are done with it. It's a nice read, well written, serves those looking to archive these games…

There's a lot of politics in this particular scene regarding game and network services cracking.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#16

Post by distantsounds »

yerasame wrote: post #14
distantsounds wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The author is not in any 'private circle', he just happened to come across data and started poking at it.

Didn't say he's in private circles -- only that you might recognize the author if you were.

i'm fully aware of who the author is, and my point still stands.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#17

Post by vernie »

distantsounds wrote: post #11
yerasame wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're in said private circles, you might recognize the author.

The author is not in any 'private circle', he just happened to come across data and started poking at it.

It looks like he's worked on a bunch of projects related to Konami rhythm games. Surely he's part of some community.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#18

Post by cdsboy »

lev99 wrote: post #5
jordigh wrote: post #4

MAME has long lacked support for certain Konami games. Is it because of this? Could MAME now support those Konami games, in jurisdictions with no anti-circumvention laws?

This shows the Konami game running natively on windows. Mame is an emulator, correct? It seems out of scope.

"MAME is a multi-purpose emulation framework."

These systems still run custom hardware for things like IO, and those parts of the systems are emulate-able.

Getting emulation of said IO chips and whatever seems pretty inline with MAME's mission statement: "MAME's purpose is to preserve decades of software history."

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#19

Post by kevin_b_er »

distantsounds wrote: post #6
jordigh wrote: post #4

MAME has long lacked support for certain Konami games. Is it because of this? Could MAME now support those Konami games, in jurisdictions with no anti-circumvention laws?

Konami didn't start using Windows for its games until IIDX 9th style, Pop'n 15, DDR X, and Drummania V...6 i think?. Before that, it was all custom hardware, based off of the PS1, PS2, or just an in-house creation. Older IIDX for instance uses a combination of a CD drive, a DVD drive, and an IDE drive for storing all its data, not to mention ROMs soldered onto the boards. The MAME team has actually just started to ge…

The major patents on MP3s are dead now and Fraunhofer shut down their licensing program. If that's the patents they're worried about, they're done.

Re: Unravelling Konami's Arcade DRM

#20

Post by Fej »

RealityCzech wrote: post #8
distantsounds wrote: post #7

This stuff has been documented in private circles for over a decade now, and hasn't been made public because these games aren't available to play outside of owning a cabinet in Japan or acquiring the data via less-legit methods. While it's a fun exercise to explore, the real-world application is sadly limited to grey-market implementations that Konami frowns upon, which reinforces why the exposure has been limited.

Information wants to be free.

Perhaps, but the details could put certain people in life-altering danger. The safety of these people has very rightly taken precedence over publishing information which could be quite literally incriminating (although they almost certainly wouldn't be prosecuted for it, just sued for all they're worth).

Konami has contacted some insiders and some arcades with stern legal warnings and they are taken very seriously. There's a joke in the community - "konmai will sue" - but it's not just a joke.

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