Live data from Hacker News

What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

nytimes.com

91–100 of 460 posts

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody cares about the sound of auto transes. But a 4-on-the-floor V8, that's another matter entirely. See the movie Bullitt for proof. I'll get an electric car like everyone else. But I dream about having a '68 Mustang :-)

But performance cars are already using electronic sound generation in gas cars. Just do that for electrics too.

> But performance cars are already using electronic sound generation in gas cars.

Not one I'd buy :-)

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#92
post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range?

Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter.

Can you imagine a hurricane evac with primarily electric cars? Well, kids, we only made it 50 miles because daddy didn't have hours to charge the car after he got back from work...

Currently gas powered cars have a common fuel and storage that does not "wear out" or become obsolete (a tank). Battery powered cars are not quite that way. Kind of in the same way that battery powered tools all have different, incompatible batteries. Those battery powered tools become obsolete all the time when you can no longer find the batteries, or if you can, its cheaper to buy a new tool. So, until they get interchangeable batteries with compatible interfaces, there's significant risk of premature obsolescence, which could significantly inflate the cost. What are you going to do with a 5 year old car in this situation? That same situation is highly unlikely with gas powered cars.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#93
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets mentioned a lot, but I think the point is really over stated. First, there's a huge amount of room for growth in electric vehicle adoption even if we assume that EVs are a non-starter for people who park on the street at night. The problem is worth solving, but we're no where near the point in which it's the main obstacle to further adoption. Second, cars that are being used will generally spend a fair bit…

> we're no where near the point in which it's the main obstacle to further adoption Sure. I'm talking about universal adoption because the article is ("take over the world") > We don't drive especially far in a typical week This is a good point, EV range is already long enough that many urban drivers will not need to charge every day. > For some subset of street parkers, enough of that parking time will be spent at f…

Decreasing charging time might not be as helpful as you think. Lets say a car can be fully charged in 30 minutes: So the driver shows up somewhere and parks in one of the EV charging spaces and plugs in his or her car. They are not going to hang around for 30 minutes so they connect the car and go about their business. When they get back 3 hours later...

This is still a problem if you can charge in 5 minutes.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#94
post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

First world city streets already have electricity supply (for the street light and for the buildings). Setting up charging ports is already rather cheap and once cities realize that they can

- drastically reduce air pollution

- make more money selling electricity than just charging for parking

they will quickly start installing plugs everywhere.

Battery range is already at around 500 km for Tesla model S and X and the long range version of model 3, and close to 1,000 km for the new roadster. With the current incremental improvements, in 4-5 years battery range for ordinary medium priced EVs will go beyond 7-800 km on a single charge, super chargers and other chargers will be abundant, and charging will become a non-issue. Within 8-10 years, even the lowest priced EVs will have a range beyond that of combustion engine cars (6-800 km), unless innovation mysteriously were to end.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#95
post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range? Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter. Can you imagin…

I’ve seen work electric vehicles advertised that let you plug your electric tools in. No battery powered tools required and no generator. However not all tools are better when attached by a cord - my lithium ion drill is incredible.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Batteries aren't cheap.

Are batteries part of the powertrain though ?

Yes, for hybrid and electric vehicles the batteries are now considered part of the powertrain, although the fuel tank was as far as I know never considered part of the power train for an ICE vehicle.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#97
post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

Are you needing parking spaces at all. I think the big benefit is that you wouldn't need parking spaces in cities at all. "Uber" cars could instead drive to the next passenger. You also could avoid driving around over a ton of batteries. Instead you could use self driving battery packs that are laid out on the side of the road and can follow you and dock on to your car if you need an extension.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#98
post #33

These articles keep omitting a pretty big barrier to adoption: street parking. (Maybe it's a function of US being suburb-centric? But at least the New York Times ought to know better.) One of 2 things needs to happen, either charging technology improves to the point where you can charge at a gas station in a span of time comparable to refueling a conventional car, or all street parking spots need to be fitted with ch…

Half the range is really a non-starter. And is that range a "best case" range with ideal weather and new batteries and all down hill, or is that a worst case when its 20 below and the batteries are 5 years old? What's the minimum guaranteed range? Having to have the car tied up to a charging station for long periods of time just to do normal kinds of around-the-town kinds of trips - also a non-starter. Can you imagin…

I am on my second Nissan Leaf and can tell you that your concerns are largely unfounded. Most charging is opportunistic, and when you do need to do a big evacuation a Tesla sized battery can last longer than you can safely drive. In fact in the EU legal limits on commercial drivers are already exceeded by battery tech.

As for wearing out, taxi companies with leafs have over 200k on the packs and they are still good. Teslas have hit 500k miles and are still find. All that "new battery every five years" stuff turned out to be nonsense.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#99
post #64
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Model S has about 500 kW, Model 3 300 kW, Bolt 150 kW, Renault Zoe like 50 kW. As for the other question, the solar panels provide way too little charge for the given area. When EVs are all about to have 100+ kWh batteries soon, it doesn't make sense to have a solar roof top: https://www.engineering.com/ElectronicsDesign/ElectronicsDes...

The numbers in that article seem chosen as low bars to prove a point. There are panels with much greater efficiency/density and lower cost. If it doesn’t make sense today it will in the future. If a company could move their trucks for “free” for 5 hours/day they would.

I'm not completely discounting it, but 5h seems like a lot for trucks, even if you have more roof area. Tesla's Semi has a 1 MWh battery, which will be drained within a day by most firms, and I imagine Semi 2.0 will have a 2MWh battery. It's hard to imagine the solar panels would keep up with either of them.

Even if the panels can generate 100 kWh a day for the trucks, that's still like 1/10 of the day, so more like an hour. But 100 kWh seems really unlikely, even in the future.

Re: What Needs to Happen Before Electric Cars Take Over the World

#100
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're no where near the point in which it's the main obstacle to further adoption Sure. I'm talking about universal adoption because the article is ("take over the world") > We don't drive especially far in a typical week This is a good point, EV range is already long enough that many urban drivers will not need to charge every day. > For some subset of street parkers, enough of that parking time will be spent at f…

Decreasing charging time might not be as helpful as you think. Lets say a car can be fully charged in 30 minutes: So the driver shows up somewhere and parks in one of the EV charging spaces and plugs in his or her car. They are not going to hang around for 30 minutes so they connect the car and go about their business. When they get back 3 hours later... This is still a problem if you can charge in 5 minutes.

Not really a problem. Putting chargers in every space in a car park is pretty cheap, they are basically just circuit breakers or even just ordinary domestic style sockets.

Throw in a few fast ones for the people who need them and you are sorted. The fast chargers can be multi-head too, so even if someone finishes charging and doesn't come back someone else can still use it. Most rapid chargers are like that.

Also, if it's still a problem with a five minute charge, why doesn't it affect petrol pumps?

Post reply on HN