41–48 of 48 posts
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> - Signal and Whatsapp, as others have pointed out, are far from being comfortable as being private (they already know too much, phone number, etc.), and don't have the convenience of a browser based app. Whatsapp does have a browser based app. web.whatsapp.com
I get a "download the app to scan QR code and login" wall / lock-out. This wouldn't count as being browser-based!
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Given that the server distributes the keys, and there is no way for the user to compare/verify known-good keys of other users, it's possible for the server to MITM everything, actively, meaning modification instead of just eavesdropping. >- Open source code Open source doesn't save you either, because a user cannot inspect what is actually running on the server. And even the client side, while the code is technically…
Thanks for the feedback. If we assume the server is compromised then it's true that a MITM attack is trivial. However it seems to me this would be the case for any web-based e2e chat application, all of which must use a server by definition. Regardless, it's easy enough to spin up your own instance of Darkwire (`docker compose`) and operate the server yourself if so inclined.
You'll want to look into how real cryptographically secure open source comms apps do end to end encryption. Properly implemented, the server can be fully hostile and never recover messages.
Then you'll need to go remove every claim of e2e or cryptographic security from darkchat. Thank you for your time.
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Thanks for the feedback. If we assume the server is compromised then it's true that a MITM attack is trivial. However it seems to me this would be the case for any web-based e2e chat application, all of which must use a server by definition. Regardless, it's easy enough to spin up your own instance of Darkwire (`docker compose`) and operate the server yourself if so inclined.
Hey, it is painfully obvious that you have a high school level understanding of the crypto at play here. That's really OK, crypto is hard. You'll want to look into how real cryptographically secure open source comms apps do end to end encryption. Properly implemented, the server can be fully hostile and never recover messages. Then you'll need to go remove every claim of e2e or cryptographic security from darkchat. T…
Also while I appreciate the feedback, this comment struck me as more hostile than helpful, so I’d suggest having a look at HN comment guidelines for future reference.
This doesn't look especially safe. In addition to the fact that the crypto is delivered by the server, and so every browser/server transaction is an opportunity for the server to surreptitiously backdoor the crypto operations, the underlying crypto here appears to be CBC+HMAC where the payloads are decrypted before the HMAC is checked.
I am really interested in knowing how you reached your conclusions based on seeing the js file. I am quite new to analysing the source files of a given website using the firefox web console. I tried copying it to a text editor but, man, it was a mess to read. Any pointers as to how I might proceed ?
This doesn't look especially safe. In addition to the fact that the crypto is delivered by the server, and so every browser/server transaction is an opportunity for the server to surreptitiously backdoor the crypto operations, the underlying crypto here appears to be CBC+HMAC where the payloads are decrypted before the HMAC is checked.
Hello tptacek, I am really interested in knowing how you reached your conclusions based on seeing the js file. I am quite new to analysing the source files of a given website using the firefox web console. I tried copying it to a text editor but, man, it was a mess to read. Any pointers as to how I might proceed ?
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Hello tptacek, I am really interested in knowing how you reached your conclusions based on seeing the js file. I am quite new to analysing the source files of a given website using the firefox web console. I tried copying it to a text editor but, man, it was a mess to read. Any pointers as to how I might proceed ?
You'd have better luck analyzing the source rather than the minified output. Relevant code is here: https://github.com/seripap/darkwire-client/blob/master/src/u...
Thank you. I will look into this.
However, in this case, I can analyze the source now because it is available to me. What should I do when the source isn't available ? How do I proceed when all I have is the 'minified output'?
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You'd have better luck analyzing the source rather than the minified output. Relevant code is here: https://github.com/seripap/darkwire-client/blob/master/src/u...
Dear Alanfriedman, Thank you. I will look into this. However, in this case, I can analyze the source now because it is available to me. What should I do when the source isn't available ? How do I proceed when all I have is the 'minified output'?