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Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

nytimes.com

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Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#141

Post by Kalium »

workthrowaway27 wrote: post #40
rhino369 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most of these industries, the "fair wage" is actually less than tips. Or at least they used to be. Ending tipping will hurt them overall. Just think about how a great a deal tips are for waiters. 10-20% of gross revenue is huge.

And they often get under-reported on taxes.

The importance of this cannot be overstated. For a long time, cash tipping functioned as a tax dodge for a sizable number of people. In theory, anyone who receives tips is obligated to track and report them. In practice, it's very easy to dramatically under-report and the odds of an audit are minimal.

What cashless tipping does here is take away the ease of under-reporting.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#142

Post by SilasX »

berberous wrote: post #44
Sangermaine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because that would cost the companies more and they're happy to get away with paying less. It's really not a mystery.

What about doormen buildings? Why tip them in December individually? The Board should just pay them each a bonus. The unit owners pay regardless.

I guess because it can be kept off-books and untaxed? This is typically a thing you see in high-tax state/cities.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#143

Post by jrowley »

jedberg wrote: post #130
Domenic_S wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A trick I learned in college where the bank was on the other side of town: use your Debit card with pin at the grocery store and get cash back.

Hmmm, not a bad idea. But they only give like $20 back, right?

No, you can ask the cashier for cash back however you like and normally they will comply if they have enough in their drawer. Also, I got $100 at safeway in the self checkout and the machine gave me twenty $5 bills. It was hilarious. I felt like I had hit the jackpot.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#144

Post by CM30 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #113
tomc1985 wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why must this be only about tipping? Cash provides for people in a lot of ways that digital money can't or never will. Tipping, getting paid under-the-table, drug purchases... can digicash benefit all these people? Those groups should stay with cash, the amount of OpSec required for digital alternatives is too much...

Yes, digicash (more properly called "ecash" among researchers) is useful in every example you listed: it is anonymous and supports offline payments (i.e. direct payments between two parties).

Normal cash is also much easier to use, doesn't rely on any software needing to be installed (or a computer/network access in general) and offers a decent amount of deniable plausability too.

Why the obsession with replacing everything with technology when sometimes the old system works fine?

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#145

Post by zodiac »

libertyEQ wrote: post #125
jessaustin wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[downvoted for excessive irony]

Saying we need less comments of some sort does not equate to saying "screw them!" I can't DV, so you all can create an aggressive environment on HN if you want, but it won't help you IRL if you say this. If you want to create a toxic environment for discussion, that is up to dang.

Technically the last two words of your comment are "screw X"

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#146

Post by jstarfish »

Sangermaine wrote: post #110
c0wb0yc0d3r wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. I think the bigger issues are at play whether it's is the fact that minimum wages need to be adjusted, a more modern solution is needed to…

>In the US, employees must still be paid minimum wage. Depending on the state, an employer may count tips toward this amount. If an employee reports $0 in tips, the employer must pay them $7.25/hr. While I would like to believe that what you say is true, I find it hard to be true. You are beyond naive if you really think that because these laws are on the books they’re not being routinely and widely flouted or ignore…

Yeah, I had a few thousand dollars in unpaid overtime withheld by an employer; the Department of Labor helped me file a complaint, assigned me a representative, ignored all of my phone calls, and I never heard from them again.

I tried to get a labor lawyer to intervene but the total losses weren't enough for them to bother litigating. They sent a demand letter and it was ignored.

Next option would have been small claims but I didn't have the time or inclination to fight it anymore at that point. I can't imagine a waitress would fare much better.

As long as a shady employer keeps their take below $10k, it seems they are untouchable.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#147

Post by komodo »

Simon_says wrote: post #43
Glyptodon wrote: post #18

I'm reminded of a family friend telling me a story about how last year they were on day trip somewhere and a power outage happened to occur in whatever one-shop town out in the boondocks they were visiting and only one old Grandma had cash to pay for a drink or snack while the power was out, everyone else basically had to starve through lunch waiting for the power to come back on.

That's on the business. I used to be a cashier, and during power outages, we had an old carbon copier that we could use to copy credit cards and note the amount, and then enter it in manually later. You lose the instant approve/deny, but we'd also copy ids.

My new card from Citi doesn't even have raised numbers. You could probably still write it down manually I suppose.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#148

Post by Androider »

lazerpants wrote: post #60
greggarious wrote: post #54

Do people not carry cash? Maybe the types who have an apartment with a doorman in Manhattan don't. But I (a "millenial") often go to bars and restaurants that are cash only. Eventually, I found it was easier keep budget my "entertainment" in cash. Visually being able to see how much I have, how much I'm taking out helps. Being able to see that amount grow if I'm frugal one month feels good too. I have friends who cla…

Anecdotally, New Yorkers (of all varieties) carry some cash most of the time. There are just too many places that do not accept cards in NYC for people to go cashless. My friends in Denver and LA almost never seem to have cash, and are always surprised that it is a problem when they visit NYC.

New Yorker here, I can't really think of any place that doesn't take cards. Some bodegas have minimums, e.g. $5 or $10, but even those are rare and I typically pay for everything by card and carry no cash.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#149

Post by bunderbunder »

santaclaus wrote: post #93
jhpankow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was a list of Bay Area restaurants that don't require tipping. I discovered one last Friday and look forward to returning for the good food, service, and fair wages.

I recently went to Homestead in Oakland, which includes tips. The service was top notch, despite what the include-the-tip naysayers claim will happen.

I'm impressed by the pervasiveness of the belief that people won't, for the most part, try to do good work simply for the sake of taking pride in their work. It's such a remarkably pessimistic way to regard other people.

Re: Casualties of the Cashless Society: Those Who Get Seasonal Tips

#150

Post by chuckkir »

bsder wrote: post #101
Glyptodon wrote: post #18

I'm reminded of a family friend telling me a story about how last year they were on day trip somewhere and a power outage happened to occur in whatever one-shop town out in the boondocks they were visiting and only one old Grandma had cash to pay for a drink or snack while the power was out, everyone else basically had to starve through lunch waiting for the power to come back on.

Hah. The last power outage in San Diego they lost vast amounts of food because none of the businesses could transact AT ALL . They no longer have backup systems that are unpowered. So, even if you had cash, they couldn't take it.

That sounds silly. "Pen and paper" worked for many, many years and I guarantee that it can still work. What you're implying is that people couldn't add up the numbers?
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