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Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

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Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#71
post #55

You would have to be nuts to short when there's an exchange printing billions of dollars of unbacked tokens they can use to drive up the price at will. If you want to short cryptocurrency, short tethers.

Sorry, but what? What exchange is printing billions of $ of unbacked Bitcoins?

I didn't say they were.

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#72

You would have to be nuts to short when there's an exchange printing billions of dollars of unbacked tokens they can use to drive up the price at will. If you want to short cryptocurrency, short tethers.

Don't short tethers. The margin rates might just eat your gains from it going to 0.

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#73
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get upset when you print USD, so Bitfinex instead creates USDT out of thin air and then uses it to buy BTC on its exchange. This would be OK if the Tether was actually backed by USD reserves dollar for dollar, but there is zero evidence that this is the case.

I understand that, but my question is why would anyone buy USDTs in such quantities? The total is now close to a billion dollars, as far as I understand.

Exchanges make it cheaper/easier because they're all light on USD and banking/tax rules make all sorts of sketchy characters want to avoid USD. There are also probably a lot of people who don't know any better and think that it's as safe as USD.

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#74
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the market cap is over a billion! I wish I could print a billion in monopoly money and exchange it 1:1 for real dollars... https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/

That is not how market caps work. No one can exchange all the Tethers for the market cap in USD.

No, I'm saying the market cap is the number of tethers that tether.to has printed so far.

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#75
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the market cap is over a billion! I wish I could print a billion in monopoly money and exchange it 1:1 for real dollars... https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/

That is not how market caps work. No one can exchange all the Tethers for the market cap in USD.

To be fair, no one can exchange Tethers for any amount of USD. Bitfinex and all other Tether-using exchanges only allow people to cash out with Bitcoins. (Instead of the weakness of tethers being reflected in lower prices, it is reflected by inflated the tether-denominated prices for Bitcoin inside Bitfinex)

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is buying those tethers. Bitfinex is printing them and using them on their own exchange's margin trading market. They use it to wash trade the price up or down as desired. There is some evidence they have been wash trading down to trigger stop loss sell orders and buying the cheap coins. Then they wash trade up and sell.

That answer doesn't make any sense. Bitfinex is buying bitcoins from itself? Could you please explain in more detail?

Bitfinex isn't buying Bitcoin from itself. It is buying from customers that use their exchange, using fake money that they are printing out of thin air.

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#77

Could someone with some forex knowledge explain how cash-settled futures do and don't affect spot markets?

I and some others explained this in another thread [0] about a week ago. The basic explanation is that because of a simple arbitrage relationship between futures and spot, prices in these markets are tightly linked regardless of how the futures contracts are settled.

0. Read the replies to this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15895477

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#78
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's right. It's Bitfinex and it's been going on for a while now. A ton of people have called them out and they've largely ignored everyone. They've promised an audit and no audit has materialized in the years since they've promised one. There's a fantastic anonymous twitter account that's been calling them out for months now and gathering pretty damning evidence: https://twitter.com/Bitfinexed

Bitfinex prints Tethers, not Bitcoins.

> Bitfinex prints Tethers, not Bitcoins

"Yeah, but he's our bastard" [1]! Joking aside, you deposit a coin with Bitfinex and get some pixels saying "one Bitcoin". You then trust those pixels can be exchanged for Bitcoins or dollars down the road. If they're playing fast and loose with one, it's a funny argument to make that they aren't doing the same with the other.

[1] https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Talk:Franklin_D._Roosevelt

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#79

So what do you guys think of this? I believe all BTC trading spikes are driven by some of the existing owners swapping coins and cash every now and then to keep the trading volume high. It is in their best interest to get the prices bounce back higher whenever it goes down. Once the price is manipulated higher, they can sell and keep the cash when someone who thought BTC is the next "I-Dont-Know-What-It-Is-But-Its-Go…

Cryptocoin exchange rates are largely defined by pump and dump whale gangs spreading rumors and luring in novice investors.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7126153

Re: Bitcoin Climbs as Futures Debut Fails to Incite Attack by Shorts

#80
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That answer doesn't make any sense. Bitfinex is buying bitcoins from itself? Could you please explain in more detail?

People get upset when you print USD, so Bitfinex instead creates USDT out of thin air and then uses it to buy BTC on its exchange. This would be OK if the Tether was actually backed by USD reserves dollar for dollar, but there is zero evidence that this is the case.

How have they not been sued for this yet? They're advertising monopoly money as being backed by real money.
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