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Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

cnn.com

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Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#23

Post by dvt »

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues:

    - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship
    - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason)
    - Permanent bodily modification without consent
    - *Multiple* offenses
Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment fit the crime? Considering he was a leading surgeon in his field, I honestly don't know. One would have to consider potential future lives saved compared to these ethical breaches.

It's a tough call, for sure, but to exonerate him or, worse, downplay these egregious violations as "victimless crimes" is, to me, unfathomable.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#25

Post by WillReplyfFood »

y7 wrote: post #7
dotancohen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no danger of harm. In fact, though this was a stupid decision by the surgeon, I'm of the opinion that he should not be removed from his post. He was proud of his handiwork and signed off on it. Have we enough skilled surgeons to remove them for a harmless boast? Reprimanded, sure, but removing him from his post is both an over reaction and unfair to society which is already lacking in skilled healthcare pro…

He is not just a mechanic operating on inanimate objects, his "handiwork" was the insides of a person . Letting vanity get to your head and signing your initials inside of them is a gross violation of the autonomy of that person -- they never consented to such a thing.

The insides of a person loose a lot of there holyness and gloriousness, that law ascribes to the object, when you have it in your hands every day- and if the plumbing doesent work out close the lid on some meatsack with sticks in it.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#26

Post by overlordalex »

ramblerman wrote: post #13
dotancohen wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was no danger of harm. In fact, though this was a stupid decision by the surgeon, I'm of the opinion that he should not be removed from his post. He was proud of his handiwork and signed off on it. Have we enough skilled surgeons to remove them for a harmless boast? Reprimanded, sure, but removing him from his post is both an over reaction and unfair to society which is already lacking in skilled healthcare pro…

Except this isn't how we make decisions in our society. What if he hits a kid with his car, should we let him off the hook there too because 'he is needed by society'

Although, this does happen[1]:

> Oxford student given suspended sentence for stabbing boyfriend

> Judge had reportedly earlier told Lavinia Woodward a prison term could damage her prospects of becoming a heart surgeon

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/sep/25/oxford-student-l...

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#27

Post by khedoros1 »

askvictor wrote: post #20
pgsandstrom wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His "stupid decision" shows a complete lack of judgement. I would never trust anyone with my life if they are capable of doing something as absurd as this.

People who are specialists in one thing might make terrible judgements in other things. Your excellent judgement in designing software doesn't make you an excellent driver.

When my bad judgment as a driver impacts my decisions as a programmer too, I don't expect that to slide.

If his ego/vanity changes the actions that he takes when performing surgery, that sounds like a problem to me.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#29

Post by andrewstuart »

dvt wrote: post #23

The fact that people are defending this guy, or treating it as "no big deal" blows my mind. Just off the top of my head, a few ethical issues: - Breach of patient-doctor trust -- a very asymmetric relationship - Breach of the Hippocratic Oath (you don't *burn* healthy tissue without good reason) - Permanent bodily modification without consent - *Multiple* offenses Should he have been terminated? Does the punishment f…

This is why there's so many ethical issues coming to the forefront these days ... people grade things into "acceptable" levels of bad behaviour.

Re: Surgeon admits to branding initials on patients' livers

#30

Post by TrinTragula »

JSONwebtoken wrote: post #16

Honestly if he had asked for my consent, I might have thought about letting him brand my organ, it's not like anyone will see it or care. It might mean he takes more pride in his work and thus do a better job. I understand a professional wanting to "sign off" on their work; programmers, scientists, artists, engineers and so forth really like putting their name on things so why not doctors? If he were forthcoming mayb…

I cannot phantom a reason to put your health at a risk just to accomplish the ego of someone who should just do his work. I personally find it humilating. Care to explain better? Sometimes I'm really curious about how someone can have such a radically different view from me on such simple arguments, and I always love finding the reasoning behind that.
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