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I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

imallika.com

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Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#91

Post by flukus »

_jahh wrote: post #83
andrewflnr wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tragedy here cannot be overstated. The truth itself has been demonized by people who claim to be "just speaking the truth" when they lie, and people who can't see through it and believe it's ok to sacrifice truth on the altar of their ideology.

The tragedy is that for hundreds if not thousands of years half the population has had their voice muted and ability to contribute intellectually hamstrung

For hundreds if not thousands of years 90%+ of the population had their voice muted and ability to contribute intellectual hamstrung. It's only the few hundred years that we've had the resources to change this.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#92

Post by edmccard »

slowmovintarget wrote: post #18
edmccard wrote: post #10

>It's substantive and grounded in personal experience. Yes, but it's the personal experience of someone who has never "had to defend their choice of or fight an uphill battle while selecting engineering as a career choice". Which makes it seem like more of an "argument by outlier" than the expression of some deep universal insight-- yes, maybe Mallika doesn't appreciate someone listening to her talk as "being support…

It is not an "argument by outlier", though. She describes a culture where her experience is normal. This culture results in both male and female engineers. Her critique is about a culture that feels compelled to pretense instead of compelled to change.

>She describes a culture where her experience is normal.

She describes having grown up in a culture where that experience is normal, but that is not necessarily the same culture that she is working in now.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#93

Post by adrianmonk »

programmarchy wrote: post #3

This seems like a good illustration of the soft bigotry of low expectations. Yes, we should make an effort to be inclusive of all individuals, but when that's done by putting people on a pedestal simply because they're a minority, it's superficial, cringy and embarrassing for everyone involved.

What makes it a bit worse is that we are social animals, and expectations matter.

High expectations or low expectations, people often rise to the level expected of them.

Not to mention, whether you got in on the regular track or the alternate track affects people's attitudes about your abilities. People need information about others, and the circumstances of how they joined the organization (whether they are in the group that got assistance or not) is a source of information. Sure, some people have been trained to ignore that for the sake of fairness, but not 100% of everyone.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#94

Post by edmccard »

dizzystar wrote: post #15
edmccard wrote: post #10

>It's substantive and grounded in personal experience. Yes, but it's the personal experience of someone who has never "had to defend their choice of or fight an uphill battle while selecting engineering as a career choice". Which makes it seem like more of an "argument by outlier" than the expression of some deep universal insight-- yes, maybe Mallika doesn't appreciate someone listening to her talk as "being support…

You wrote the very problem. You don't agree with the thinking therefore the author is wrong and her experience and opinion isn't worth considering. This is the very antithesis of acceptance, inclusiveness, and diversity. I think her message is very simple and powerful. Just be interested in what she is working on based on the merits or her work. I think that's an excellent model to strive for, and really, it's sad an…

>You don't agree with the thinking therefore the author is wrong and her experience and opinion isn't worth considering.

No, I just don't agree that the author's experience generalizes to other women.

>Just be interested in what she is working on based on the merits or her work.

And what of people like the event manager in the article who are interested in other aspects of her career? Shouldn't we practice "acceptance, inclusiveness, and diversity" toward them also?

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#95

Post by shiven »

Damn. This nails it. Ever since my first exposure to computing and “programming”, I always deeply felt it was a great equalizer and meritocracy filter. A field where instead of your skin, the only color that mattered was of the grey in your brain. Where gender was as meaningless as asking androids their sex. Where your “accent” didn’t matter, because code does not have any. Where what you smell of didn’t matter because all anyone smelt was factory-fresh PCBs, come to life with electrons. Where money was a result of smarts, hard work and imagination. It was, and will likely always be my utopia. It may or not exist in the world out there. Maybe it never did. But, it is real to me, somewhere within me and will always be, in some way small or large. DudeBros, CodeJocks and SoftDogs be damned along with PussyPasses and the GoldDiggers.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#96

Post by gkya »

greglindahl wrote: post #90
gkya wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Identity politics has won over these ideals. Instead of gender becoming less and less relevant, it came to define the person's identity, and in the process begot more and more genders in a quest to categorise everyone. As victimhood and groupthink are the pillars of current politics, instead of trying to obtain more and more freedom and detach from stereotypes, people try to belong more strongly to the categories in…

Sorry, when has it ever been the case that gender did not define a person's identity? I'm a bit confused as to when in history this was.

Never, but the extent to which it shapes a person's identity is probably more ample then it ever was.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#97

Post by weberc2 »

echaozh wrote: post #84
weberc2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would one boast about less diversity? Did you mean "highest ratio"?

But highest ratio is still less diversity. Only 50-50 is highest diversity, right?

It is, which is my point. Why would you brag about being less diverse? The OP responded and said he made a mistake and got the order wrong.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#98

Post by greglindahl »

gkya wrote: post #96
greglindahl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, when has it ever been the case that gender did not define a person's identity? I'm a bit confused as to when in history this was.

Never, but the extent to which it shapes a person's identity is probably more ample then it ever was.

Ah. I am bewildered as to why your previous comment makes sense, then.

Re: I don’t want to be the pink elephant in the room

#100

Post by mcguire »

"I come from a country and a back ground where intelligence and the ability to work extremely hard is valued highly, with beauty, money and popularity ranked far, far below."

Wait! Where is this fabled land? I would bow humbly before the philosopher-kings who rule it, grovel at their feet to learn how they so wisely manage mere human weaknesses! Surely there the streets are paved with gold and happiness and good fortune follow all those who fail to foolishly abandon such a blessed land.

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