What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
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What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
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Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#2Agree so much on this, efficient stored procedures are a godsend when refactoring applications and are excellent at backup authorization checks.
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#3No
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#4query builders are the sweet spot.
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#5A lot of the reasons listed in this article actually made me shift from sophisticated ORMs like Hibernate back to a query based approach. A really nice framework for this (in Java) is jOOQ which gives you the possibility to write typesafe SQL via code generation.
https://www.jooq.org/
(I'm not at all affiliated with jOOQ - just a happy user)
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#6If you have not read The Vietnam of Computer Science[1] I highly suggest it.
http://blogs.tedneward.com/post/the-vietnam-of-computer-scie...
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#7I have to agree. ORMs can be great when an application is just starting, because that's when you're writing the most tedious queries and statements, but beyond that I personally find that ORMs just get in the way.
As soon as I need to write something more complicated than select-by-id I end up reaching straight for SQL. Otherwise I have to learn both the ORM's query API or DSL and have the proper mental model for how it translates to actual SQL.
Or I could just write SQL and be done with it. No mysteries.
Maybe this is just me, but I've never written a join in an ORM that I had the slightest bit of confidence in.
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#8He says he likes SQLAlchemy, but doesn't say why. I'm interested to know that though.
To me, the big win with SQLAlchemy is that it separates the SQL expression layer from the ORM layer so cleanly. I can write very complicated queries with the expression layer that wouldn't be possible at the ORM layer, and do it in a much more composable way than concatenating SQL strings. Example: http://btubbs.com/postgres-search-with-facets-and-location-a...
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#9I prefer to use SQL directly as well.
But some points to be made in favor of ORMs (some of them, anyway):
* Multiple backend support to handle different SQL engines.
* Minimized risk of accidental injection.
* Migrations.
Re: What ORMs have taught me: just learn SQL (2014)
#10LOL! I got fired from a project for making this argument. OMG, just get your data from sql statements or some sort of cache and be done with it...wtf.