MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike • Hacker News Board

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#161

Post by subway » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:33 AM UTC

Confiks wrote: post #25

To repeat an earlier comment, this scheme encourages a centralization of trust into a private key managed by processor manufacturers. You might say that by integrating SGX mechanisms into your security model, you create a set of 'feudal lords' [1] who can wield their power over you. A manufacturer may 'legitimately' establish an enclave in your most trusted hardware which you may not audit or even measure. And if tha…

Moxie has made it pretty clear through the way Signal operates than Moxie's worldview is one where our feudal lords know better than mere serfs can ever hope to. I'm not at all surprised that yet again trust roots are taken out of the hands of end users.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#162

Post by tmp123tmp123 » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:34 AM UTC

The age of Tantric bullshit all over again. Science and finance became a contest of idiotic sophisticated models, similar to ancient cosmology and pseudo-philosophy. Piling bullshit upon bullshit and trying to overshout everyone else. All model-based science is such contest of tantras made out of math and probability.

Now everyone is inventing a new breed of digital turnips (not forgetting to secure a middle man position for themselves) as if this is anything but hype. My block-chain based turnips are better than yours.

Laws of economics are bound by the laws of physics. It is merely the principle of energy efficiency at work and related medium of exchange and social constructs. If something grows out of nothing it is not economics anymore. It is something else. Mass hysteria. Social momentum. Lifecicle of a meme. Whatever it is.

Crypto currencies to finance are what cat pictures are to the internet. One could monetize can I haz hamburger meme, but there is nothing substantial behind it. So are crypto currencies.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#163

Post by coderdude » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:36 AM UTC

Hi, I'm like a 10-year-in loser who wants to strike it rich with bitcoin. Please describe in detail how I and only I can become a new-money juggernaut in finance. Ty

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#164

Post by amscanne » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:48 AM UTC

tylersmith wrote: post #145

pishpash wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing revolutionary about distributed consensus. It was the 2008 financial crisis that brought the anti-banking crowd into frenzy, seeing all sorts of claimed benefits in using this sort of thing for money. They would have been goldbugs or tulip collectors under other circumstances. Or do you mean the revolutionary scamming techniques never seen before? /s

Trustless Byzantine fault tolerant decentralized consensus as long as < 50% of participants are not acting in concert. That _is_ revolutionary.

Not consensus, probabilistic consensus. And not 50% of participants, 50% of computing power. Those are critical distinctions.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#165

Post by homakov » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 7:58 AM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #152

Asdfbla wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think it's an interesting approach. If you want to be more efficient and less wasteful than Bitcoin, at some point trust has to come into play. And reducing your trust to the manufacturers of secure enclaves (whose products can also be audited to a degree) is surely an improvement still, even if it doesn't have the radical threat model of conventional cryptocurrencies (which inevitably run into scaling proble…

> From centralized exchanges, to centralized mining cartels, what does something like Bitcoin have left to offer? I'd say you're being overdramatic here. Mining is still decentralised and if there are any mining cartels, they haven't abused their position yet. It's still possible to buy, sell and spend Bitcoin peer to peer as well.

> Mining is still decentralised

Wait what, no.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#166

Post by darawk » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 8:14 AM UTC

amscanne wrote: post #164

tylersmith wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trustless Byzantine fault tolerant decentralized consensus as long as < 50% of participants are not acting in concert. That _is_ revolutionary.

Not consensus, probabilistic consensus. And not 50% of participants, 50% of computing power. Those are critical distinctions.

But distinctions that make it no less revolutionary.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#167

Post by pishpash » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 8:21 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #166

amscanne wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not consensus, probabilistic consensus. And not 50% of participants, 50% of computing power. Those are critical distinctions.

But distinctions that make it no less revolutionary.

Probabilistic consensus was not known before bitcoin? Somehow I highly doubt it.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#168

Post by mirimir » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 8:32 AM UTC

Kadin wrote: post #132

flatline wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pseudonymity/anonymity, for one. You can freely transact across borders, for another.

That's really only useful to a small number of users, relative to the overall size of the economy, and many of them are doing things that aren't legal. Not a market I'd probably target if I was going for mass adoption.

Gambling and porn are both quite popular.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#169

Post by garmaine » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 8:47 AM UTC

olalonde wrote: post #152

Asdfbla wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still think it's an interesting approach. If you want to be more efficient and less wasteful than Bitcoin, at some point trust has to come into play. And reducing your trust to the manufacturers of secure enclaves (whose products can also be audited to a degree) is surely an improvement still, even if it doesn't have the radical threat model of conventional cryptocurrencies (which inevitably run into scaling proble…

> From centralized exchanges, to centralized mining cartels, what does something like Bitcoin have left to offer? I'd say you're being overdramatic here. Mining is still decentralised and if there are any mining cartels, they haven't abused their position yet. It's still possible to buy, sell and spend Bitcoin peer to peer as well.

> I'd say you're being overdramatic here. Mining is still decentralised

Controlled by a handful of people is absolutely not decentralized.

They have abused their power. Ghash double spends. Segwit blocked for a year. Bitcoin cash proxy support.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#170

Post by garmaine » Sat, Dec 16, 2017, 8:48 AM UTC

DennisP wrote: post #106

dogma1138 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You also do so in the UK and virtually every other country I can think off.

In the U.S. there's already a small-purchase exclusion for foreign currencies.

Bitcoin is not a currency for tax purposes in the USA.