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MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

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Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#71

Post by wmf »

lumberjack wrote: post #63
espadrine wrote: post #47

Using Stellar’s Federated Byzantine Agreement as a basis for consensus is a solid foundation. David Mazières’ paper[0] displays strong insights and proofs into the structure of byzantine systems with open membership. [0]: https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pd... I wonder where the code for MobileCoin is, or when it will get open-sourced. All GitHub yields currently is this clearly non-affiliate…

I'm not sure I understand correctly, but from what I got, Stellar is a distributed ledger, but not a currency. There are no coins as such. But the upside is that the consensus is reached without a taxing algorithm. Everyone can run a node, but the whole system is not itself decentralised, because you need "anchors", which are banks or payment processors, to get your money in and out of the system. So then, what is th…

you need "anchors", which are banks or payment processors, to get your money in and out of the system.

You also need exchanges for cryptocurrency[1], so why not admit it from day one and build that concept into the system?

And maybe it's possible to graft a cryptocurrency onto SCP by using consensus to choose nodes which receive freshly "mined" currency.

[1] The mythical closed-loop Bitcoin economy ain't going to happen.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#72

Post by lacker »

lumberjack wrote: post #63
espadrine wrote: post #47

Using Stellar’s Federated Byzantine Agreement as a basis for consensus is a solid foundation. David Mazières’ paper[0] displays strong insights and proofs into the structure of byzantine systems with open membership. [0]: https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pd... I wonder where the code for MobileCoin is, or when it will get open-sourced. All GitHub yields currently is this clearly non-affiliate…

I'm not sure I understand correctly, but from what I got, Stellar is a distributed ledger, but not a currency. There are no coins as such. But the upside is that the consensus is reached without a taxing algorithm. Everyone can run a node, but the whole system is not itself decentralised, because you need "anchors", which are banks or payment processors, to get your money in and out of the system. So then, what is th…

Anchors are not inherent to the Stellar consensus protocol - that is part of how the Stellar coin works, but the consensus protocol doesn't include that, it is just the mechanism for the various nodes coming to a consensus on the blocks.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#73

Post by DennisP »

superquest wrote: post #4

> "Nobody actually transacts in cryptocurrency," Goldbard says. "So making something that people can actually use is our first goal. And then we want to find additional ways that people can implement it over time. But initially all we want is to make it so people can actually complete transactions." Amen. Too few projects have this focus.

On reason, in the U.S. at least, is that you're supposed to pay capital gains on every little bit you spend. There's a bill in Congress right now to exclude crypto transactions under $600 from capital gains, which would be a big help.

Even if you do want to hold long term, you could just replenish what you spend along the way, if it weren't a tax reporting nightmare.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#74

Post by kang »

superquest wrote: post #64
highd wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is secondary to there being no benefit to the average user for transacting in crypto vs Visa. What incentive is there for an end user to use even a hypothetically optimal crypto system? Then is that incentive sufficient to overcome network effects? The appropriate and interesting applications of crypto seem to be totally leaving p2p cash behind - it just doesn't seem like a good fit.

The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants, correct? So it would have wider adoption than Visa, at the very least. I do agree that crypto keeps drifting away from p2p cash ... that's a good observation. But I hope people keep shooting at that target.

> The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants

Incorrect. Decentralization is always more expensive and slower than centralized system(both hypothetically optimal) due to extra sync cost.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#75

Post by qznc »

rjromero wrote: post #46

Anyone have any links to read more about SGX? What's stopping someone from intercepting everything going down their and just doing the operations on their own while watching?

Essentially, the CPU has a private key. Using the corresponding public key you can send code to the CPU to execute and the CPU prevents even the OS from looking at the decrypted code. You can also check the signature of the CPU against a public Intel key to verify it is indeed an Intel CPU you are sending code to.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#76

Post by bkolobara »

CryptoPunk wrote: post #65
bkolobara wrote: post #52

Great to see more cryptocurrency adopting Stellar's Consensus Protocol. Decentralisation and scalability without the environmental impact of proof of work.

Stellar is not decentralized. It is federated, meaning a number of trusted third parties act as the intermediary, and eventually, will become the gatekeepers as governments deputize them to enforce their respective laws (e.g. capital controls in China).

Like if 90% of mining power owned by 2 companies makes something more decentralised. I would argue that the Stellar Consensus Protocol is more resilient to centralisation than any proof of work one.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#78

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

superquest wrote: post #38

How might this project grow out of its dependence on Intel hardware over time?

Like most other tulip breeds, the craze over their creation will turn to sudden death before the practical concerns they raise need to be considered.

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#79

Post by zulucrypto »

lumberjack wrote: post #63
espadrine wrote: post #47

Using Stellar’s Federated Byzantine Agreement as a basis for consensus is a solid foundation. David Mazières’ paper[0] displays strong insights and proofs into the structure of byzantine systems with open membership. [0]: https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pd... I wonder where the code for MobileCoin is, or when it will get open-sourced. All GitHub yields currently is this clearly non-affiliate…

I'm not sure I understand correctly, but from what I got, Stellar is a distributed ledger, but not a currency. There are no coins as such. But the upside is that the consensus is reached without a taxing algorithm. Everyone can run a node, but the whole system is not itself decentralised, because you need "anchors", which are banks or payment processors, to get your money in and out of the system. So then, what is th…

Stellar is a distributed ledger that has a native currency to make payments easier.

After reading up on Taler, it sounds like a very similar idea to Stellar, but Stellar removes some of the need for trusted authorities.

From the Taler overview: "The system requires an external auditor, such as a government-appointed financial regulatory body, to frequently verify the exchange's databases and check that its bank balance matches the total value of the remaining coins in circulation."

In Stellar, this service is provided by the ledger and the nodes that validate it.

There are other interesting features of the Stellar native currency such as providing a way to transparently convert between currencies when making a payment: https://www.stellar.org/how-it-works/stellar-basics/explaine...

Re: MobileCoin: A New Cryptocurrency from Moxie Marlinspike

#80

Post by wmf »

kang wrote: post #74
superquest wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants, correct? So it would have wider adoption than Visa, at the very least. I do agree that crypto keeps drifting away from p2p cash ... that's a good observation. But I hope people keep shooting at that target.

> The hypothetically optimal crypto system would be cheaper for merchants Incorrect. Decentralization is always more expensive and slower than centralized system(both hypothetically optimal) due to extra sync cost.

You're mixing cost and price. Let's say the cost of a Visa transaction is 0.1% and the price is 2.5% while the cost and price of a MobileCoin transaction are 0.2%. It costs more but it's still cheaper for merchants.
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