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F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

nytimes.com

971–980 of 1001 posts

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#971

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I don't regret moving to London. Not one bit. The UK, along with all other commonwealth countries, has no equivalent rules to repeal or support.

They also don't have equivalent regional monopolies on telecom infrastructure, so the problem is very much mitigated.

Just don't move to those regions. The United States is the third or fourth largest country in the world by land mass. There are properties you can buy which are inside the range of only one terrestrial ISP, or none at all. Don't do it if access to more than one terrestrial ISP is important to you.

Also, I don't know if you're referring specifically to the UK. I happen to have some experience with the ISP situation in Canada, and I can tell you that there are places smack-dab in the middle of the largest city in the country where you only have access to one ISP. There are really only about four, maybe five, functioning terrestrial ISPs in Canada, and in a given city, usually only two operate. I have no idea how sparse it gets out in the sticks, cottage country at least gets LTE. Generally the only terrestrial ISP competition in Canada is between monopolies on roughly either side of the continental divide in telephone DSLs (Bell or Telus, depending on region) and modems on the cable TV infrastructure (Rogers or Shaw, depending on region), a fifth is coming up just in Toronto (Beanfield), time will tell if they can manage to expand the fiber infrastructure enough to grow their business.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#972
post #135

This wouldn't be a problem if ISP's weren't de facto monopolies. If there was competition in this space, then there would be incentive to improve the infrastructure and Internet speeds. However, ISP's kill competition by making legal arrangements with local governments to only do business with them, and by cutting competitors' cables. Since we have no way to guarantee reasonable speeds to small time websites now, we…

I have more ISP choices than grocery store choices.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#973
post #430

If you voted for Trump, this one's on you.

Please don't post political flamebait to HN. Even assuming you're right, posting like this destroys this site. Everyone commenting here needs to take responsibility for not doing that. Just like it's even more important to guard against sparks when the forest is already dry, it's even more important to take this responsibility when the topic is already politicized. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I'm a little shocked that you removed and commented on this fairly benign comment but apparently don't have time to remove outright bigotry that I've flagged in the past. It feels like the moderation here is very much in the pocket of the alt-right.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#974

The voters elected a Republican government. That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine. Anybody who told you that lobbying the FCC was going to make a difference here was, whether they meant to or not, selling a bill of goods. As someone who respects but mostly profoundly disagrees with principled Republican la…

> But otherwise, be clear-eyed: elections have consequences. We elected the party of deregulation. Take the bad with whatever the good is, and work to flip the House back. What I'm bitter about is that my vote, as a californian, is worth a tiny fraction of a vote in a swing state. Republican lawmakers have zero incentive to care about me, and red states are overrepresented in congress in relation to their small popul…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15926309

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#975
post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is not why this is shocking. This proceeding is shocking because the legal basis for this change is dependent on a false statements about the technology involved. It goes beyond just, "Republicans prefer deregulation," or, "Republicans favor market-based approaches." There is plenty of room and a general need for debates about what policy approaches are best, but there is no room for debate about the answer to…

One could argue that the democrats have an anti-science view on gender. The newest argument from the far left is that there are no physiological differences between man and woman. Biology says otherwise. The best thing you can do is realize everyone is an idiot and think for yourself rather than the party.

No, the science said there’s no physiological difference between the male and female _brain_. Big difference there, chief.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#976
post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That is not why this is shocking. This proceeding is shocking because the legal basis for this change is dependent on a false statements about the technology involved. It goes beyond just, "Republicans prefer deregulation," or, "Republicans favor market-based approaches." There is plenty of room and a general need for debates about what policy approaches are best, but there is no room for debate about the answer to…

One could argue that the democrats have an anti-science view on gender. The newest argument from the far left is that there are no physiological differences between man and woman. Biology says otherwise. The best thing you can do is realize everyone is an idiot and think for yourself rather than the party.

There is no doubt that Democrats sometimes ignore facts and expert opinions. That is a normal part of the political process.

The problem is that in recent months Republicans seem to always ignore the facts being presented to them. That is beyond "politics as usual" and is dangerous and destructive to our country.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#977

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hate to say "I told you so", but conservatives (sometimes) and libertarians have been warning the country for ever about the pitfalls of centralizing important things like this under an unaccountable federal bureaucracy. If you're opposed to this ruling, you're most likely reaping what you sow.

What? If you're a staunch libertarian who wants the FCC to go away, how would the absence of FCC help net neutrality? We only have (had!) net neutrality and other important regulatory protections because the FCC exists. Something needs to exist as a protection against corporate abuse. If it's not a centralized agency, then what? There's no self-correcting mechanism in capitalism that magically prevents companies from…

Never said I was an opponent or proponent of 'Net Neutrality'. I was merely commenting on the interesting turn of events where the obvious ramifications of a centralized bureaucracy 'hurt' the perceived well being of the people who typically argue FOR centralized power. For all my ill feeling towards the Trump administration, it has been extremely fruitful in providing situations which exhibit this hilarity.

As for your statement and question;

> Something needs to exist as a protection against corporate abuse. If it's not a centralized agency, then what? There's no self-correcting mechanism in capitalism that magically prevents companies from screwing with consumers

Couple points...

First, "There's no self-correcting mechanism in capitalism that magically prevents companies from screwing with consumers" gave me a solid laugh. Little thought experiment: let's say there are two alternate realities. In one of these realities, somehow, Starbucks is the ONLY way for you to get coffee. Somehow, they've completely ensured other coffee shops can't open (it's either too expensive for them to open or literally illegal). In the other reality, opening a coffee shop is easy! Starbucks hasn't colluded with any government agency to make coffee shop ownership too expensive or difficult to pull off. In which one of these realities do you think (the) coffee shop(s) would abuse their customer base(s), charge inflated prices, or provide lackluster serviced that rarely if ever are innovated on? I'm hoping for the sake of discussion, you understand my point. Scenario 1 is hardly a far stretch from exactly what has happened over the years in the ISP industry. The FCC is HARDLY innocent in creating our current dismal ISP situation. Open markets are THE system that prevents abusive actions towards consumers.

The second point, I am far from against the government protecting consumers from abuse by corporations. Fraud or anti-competitive behavior should be met with a stern legal response. But when the government played a huge role in creating an environment where we can't protect ourselves, I'm extremely dubious of any power grab attempted in the name of "we'll protect you". In an open market, I have a perfectly good mechanism for protecting myself which also happens to stimulate innovation, lowers prices, and improves the product/service.

So yea, an artificial monopoly has now been given more leeway in how they provide services to an already abused customer base... it's a bummer. However, I'm not keen on providing more power to the very people who helped get us here so that they can control the problem they created. Let's fix the root of the issue. Decry crony capitalism always - not just when it's 'the other guys' doing it.

And one last point... ISPs provide an extremely expensive and complex service to their customers. In what world are price controls and artificial monopolies a good idea? We need innovation in this space, not uniformity of service and centralized decision making. It's the internet, not the DMV. We should make it so ISPs have to win our usership by providing the best most valuable service, not by wielding the legislative process more effectively then there would be competition.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#978

The voters elected a Republican government. That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine. Anybody who told you that lobbying the FCC was going to make a difference here was, whether they meant to or not, selling a bill of goods. As someone who respects but mostly profoundly disagrees with principled Republican la…

Why can't I vote this comment down, or at least flag it?

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#979
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans aren't pushing deregulation of the internet to make swing states happy. They are pushing for deregulation because that's what several billionaire campaign contributors want them to do.

That's more than a little bit off the mark. Both the U.S. and Europe are in the middle of a multi-decade economic boom resulting from deregulation. Telecom, airline, etc., deregulation isn't something we did on our own. Pretty much the whole developed world has massively deregulated these industries, and continues to do so, and continues to benefit from those policies. To me, the litmus test for whether deregulatory…

If only the gains from that boom could go to more than just a few...

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#980

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what do you expect from Republicans Disclaimer: I am a canadian citizen. What I expect from republicans is the opposite of evidence based policy making. None of their policies are supported or motivated by evidence. Pick one from taxes to gun control to sex education.

Informed gun advocates can actually make a pretty compelling case against gun control, but few are interested in listening. Canada's gun control IIRC isn't that much stricter than the US's, yet there's significantly less gun crime. As Michael Moore pointed out in "Bowling for Columbine" culture seems to play a significant part.

That's interesting but I haven't heard any of these compelling cases. All I see is fear mongering from the NRA.

I'd argue that there isn't a good argument against gun control. The 2nd amendment gives US citizens the right to bear arms but pretty much any sane person will agree that there should be control over some arms. You aren't allowed to build a nuke or make sarin gas in your back yard. If everyone agrees that control over some weapons is a good idea then why would guns specifically be exempt from regulation?

Here are a few questions I'd like to see answered by someone who is against gun control: Should we allow the sale of devices that modify guns to fire at a rate of 100s of rounds a minute? Should we allow the sale of guns to people with a history of violent crime? Are there mental illnesses that should prevent someone from owning a gun? Should we require a cooling down period between when a person decides to buy a gun and when the actual purchase goes through? Are there any places we should not allow people to go while armed with a gun?

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