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The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

theguardian.com

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Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#241

Post by zzzzzzzza »

kodablah wrote: post #163
zzzzzzzza wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"no offense" doesn't mean that they think you're not american, even though it could mean that, similar to "where are you from". I'll grant you tv/movies, though that is undeniably getting better. I grew up in a town literally called "white settlement", conservative suburban but semi rural texas, most of my friends were asian and while I don't think they NEVER heard the word chink, it was never in a threatening or eve…

White Settlement is definitely not semi-rural IMO compared to how many towns in TX are rural and semi-rural. However, having also grown up in a similar style area just west of there, I concur with not hearing anything like GP mentioned. It's unfortunate that GP had bad stereotyping/racist experiences, but it's fortunate that they visited every single city and are able to make these claims about all but 3 or 4 without…

the town itself is definitely suburban, there were horses outside the high school tho, and the way UIL lines were drawn we were grouped with a bunch of actually rural districts.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#242

Post by arkh »

celdon25 wrote: post #229
arkh wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I don't either but if we limit immigration from one kind of culture we should limit it from all. 2. I'd say those who want to profit from "free" healthcare first. Kind of what happen with our expats: once they start popping kids they come back because they can pay a lot less. 3. Full of Middle Eastern refugees? Asking this is like someone asking if the US is full of Mexican illegals. No. I started my comment a lit…

There are actually relatively few racists in the US (especially in non rural areas), but I have been aware of the rampant European-style racism for awhile due to my mother being a flight attendant, and how she was treated. Sad to hear that we even have apologists for it on Hacker News.

> There are actually relatively few racists in the US

From outside you seem obsessed with race and skin color. I like US stand-up so I watched all def on HBO: it is funny but "black there", "white there". It looks like the kind of difference we have between European countries: we lightly joke about it but there's always an undercurrent of repressed us vs them.

And I'd like more people to stop using the word racism for xenophobia: racism is based on appearance, xenophobia is based on origin. One is the fear of difference the other is the fear of the stranger. For racists, a black Spanish and a white Spanish are different, not for xenophobes. For xenophobes a White American is not the same thing as a white South African while they're the same thing for racists.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#243

Post by thirdsun »

mseebach wrote: post #64
stinky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

> way more upward mobility than they could ever dream of It's worth keeping in mind that it's relative upwards mobility - upwards mobility in the US conjures up some slightly different mental images. Top 10% in Denmark is absolutely unremarkable middle class in the US. If you enjoy being relatively equal to your neighbours, then it's great, if you enjoy objective material wealth, less so.

You probably already know this, but of course it's useless to compare absolute material wealth between european and US citizens.

Again, you might already be aware of that, but I'd say it's much more important to consider the benefits that come with a european wage that might seem unremarkable in the US: Healthcare, education, social security are the most obvious aspects, but in general I'm sure your money, even if it's less in absolute terms, will buy you a lot more in europe.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#244

Post by knightofmars »

Helmet wrote: post #145
knightofmars wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TL;DR: "They should just move." is a naive response to the issue presented. Children and family/friends who are around to support you and also sometimes watch your children are often a reason. Could someone move themselves and their two children? Yes, it would cost $300 (to start). Then you'd need to find a place where all three of you could live before you've actually even found a job. This short-term place to live…

> The reality is those perspectives are from someone educated enough to understand economics, government programs and how the system works, and someone with a supportive well functioning family. All of which someone working a food-service job is unlikely to have. Don't make assumptions. They can move. My reality is of a first-generation immigrant. My parents did not have degrees and worked minimum wage jobs. They mov…

>It wasn't fun, it sucked a lot actually, but we did what we had to do, not what >we wanted to do.

I can see this is personal for you. I just want to put out a thank you for putting your own story on here.

>They can move.

This is an assumption.

> My parents did not have degrees and worked minimum wage jobs. They moved > multiple times when it became financially unfeasible to live somewhere.

You don't need a degree to be educated or educate yourself. A degree has nothing to do with what I was trying to say. Poverty has been repeatedly shown to have a negative effect on literacy and critical thinking skills. Just because some of the people raised in poverty aren't impacted due to circumstance doesn't mean that the overall trend isn't real.

Here's a thought exercise, take 1,000 people from the poorest neighborhoods in SF. Then given their current wage versus a potential wage in another city and state ask them to calculate if moving would be the right choice. Tell them they can use whatever resources they'd like to determine costs. How many of those 1,000 people would be able to make the correct calculations? How many of those 1,000 would be able to calculate what the impact of taking out a loan to help fund the move would be?

> My reality is of a first-generation immigrant.

You're using a personal anecdote to explain why I'm wrong. It's a logical fallacy. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/anecdotal

>They moved multiple times when it became financially unfeasible to live >somewhere.

Yes, people can move. I'm trying to highlight the point to the demographic that frequents "Hacker News"; the 80% educated tech professionals most of which are single. There are a myriad of reasons why for a large number of people it's not feasible or they simply don't have the ability to do the calculations to determine whether or not moving would be beneficial.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#245

Post by wpietri »

BeetleB wrote: post #171
wpietri wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That your parents once did something in different circumstances does not mean everybody can here and now. Even if we value family connections on a pure cash basis -- which I don't recommend -- moving can be bad for people. E.g., the cost of replacing grandparents with professional childcare can be astronomical. Family also provides an economic buffer against the ups and downs that are especially hard on the poor. Wha…

>That your parents once did something in different circumstances does not mean everybody can here and now. Many can. In my city (nowhere near SV), the cost of living is a bit high. I knew a bunch of low skilled workers who worked in restaurants, cleaning dishes, cooking, etc. They were all fairly close. When rents started shooting up a few years ago, they got together and made a plan - and moved to the Midwest, buyin…

Many can, some can't. Counterexamples doesn't prove that a problem is not a problem. Even when, in your case, you add two more stories.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#246

Post by dang »

jimmywanger wrote: post #32
zxcmx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely the opposite. I've been poor and absolutely I valued connections and networks over the fundamentals, much as rich people do. Frankly I think this is the rational decision under the circumstances, factoring in uncertainty and decision costs. You think I'm SJWing here while I'm just trying to explain how people actually make decisions, which is typically not with reference to abstract tables, but based on pr…

The point wooshed above your head. You valued connections and networks, so you made a CHOICE. Nobody is forcing people to make choices. If you don't have money, you can move and have food and shelter or you can stay in a place you like living at except you have to struggle. Choose one way or another. Does not matter. But you made the choice based on your priorities. After you choose, you don't get to complain about h…

> The point wooshed above your head.

Uncivil swipes like this are not welcome here. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and clean up your act.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#247

Post by doktrin »

JoshMnem wrote: post #236
doktrin wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's already possible if you have technical skills. By and large, an American engineer moving to Europe is trading down in a big way - including but definitely not limited to financial compensation.

Cost of living is much lower. Health care is included. I think there were six weeks of paid vacation per year. Budapest was a 2 hour bus ride away (10 euros), and many other interesting destinations were very close. If difficult times strike, you won't be left to die on the street. Things like life experience and culture are often more important than money.

I don't agree about cost of living aside from outliers like the SFBA, and US healthcare is by and large better if you have access to insurance.

At the end of the day, in the US you get more pay, more respect and more recognition for the same work - and in many cases American software devs get vacation packages that are comparable to the European standard.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#248

Post by JoshMnem »

doktrin wrote: post #247
JoshMnem wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cost of living is much lower. Health care is included. I think there were six weeks of paid vacation per year. Budapest was a 2 hour bus ride away (10 euros), and many other interesting destinations were very close. If difficult times strike, you won't be left to die on the street. Things like life experience and culture are often more important than money.

I don't agree about cost of living aside from outliers like the SFBA, and US healthcare is by and large better if you have access to insurance. At the end of the day, in the US you get more pay, more respect and more recognition for the same work - and in many cases American software devs get vacation packages that are comparable to the European standard.

US is ranked something like 37th in the world for health care. I lived in a top-10 country, though didn't use the health care there.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#249

Post by doktrin »

JoshMnem wrote: post #248
doktrin wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree about cost of living aside from outliers like the SFBA, and US healthcare is by and large better if you have access to insurance. At the end of the day, in the US you get more pay, more respect and more recognition for the same work - and in many cases American software devs get vacation packages that are comparable to the European standard.

US is ranked something like 37th in the world for health care. I lived in a top-10 country, though didn't use the health care there.

> US is ranked something like 37th in the world for health care.

That low ranking is probably well deserved, but it applies at the macro level. The US medical system is fundamentally asymmetrical, but it's great for the "haves" - and for those privileged enough to enjoy good insurance plans, it offers some of the best healthcare in the world.

Given the context of this discussion, I think it's fair to assume that American engineers considering a move abroad currently have health coverage at home (or are in a position to get it). Apples to apples.

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