Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

E Pur Si Muove

blog.samaltman.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 853 posts

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#621

Post by mikeash »

Houshalter wrote: post #400

Most of the comments here are about culture war and missing the more interesting point of the essay. We knew political tribalism was getting bad in SF. But isn't insane that things like life extension and genetic engineering are becoming a victim to this? I wouldn't have even thought these issues were controversial or political. These are by far the most important technologies of our time. The consequences of them be…

Are life extension and genetic engineering really becoming a victim of this? Or is this just a mostly inconsequential reaction by people who have noticed that wealthy Silicon Valley technologists love to talk about improving humanity but mostly end up producing products which make life easier for wealthy Silicon Valley technologists?

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#622

Post by johnny22 »

xster wrote: post #594
marme wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is exactly the case. Try saying "taiwan is an independent country" in beijing and see how well that statement is received

Seems like a sensible theme to explore but is this data or conjecture? I'd make a similarly anecdotal conjecture that you'd be met with rigorous debate but your social character standing won't be affected by bringing this topic up, nor would it be socially acceptable for your opponent to use ad hominem at any point. This is the theme the author is addressing.

but one can put you in jail and the other can't.

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#623

Post by chasing »

stale2002 wrote: post #584
chasing wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're going to have to be more specific. What kind of controversial opinion are you worried will get you fired?

Sure. How about voicing the controversial opinion that private citizens should have a right to free speech without being fired (as in, believing that free speech should apply to more than just the government). IE, free speech, applied to private companies, as the controversial opinion that a person is getting fired for.

A company has to continue to employ you no matter what dumb things you say at work?

(Also, no place worth working for will fire you for saying “private citizens should have the right to free speech without being fired.” What is the controversial opinion you’re actually worried about expressing at work? That Windows Mobile is making a huge comeback? That pina colada Oreos are tasty?)

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#624

Post by ENOTTY »

scrollaway wrote: post #551
nine_k wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, some ideas are inherently dangerous. An idea of atoms splitting leads to an atomic bomb, for instance. Some substances, tools, machines, etc are also inherently dangerous, and can't be made not to be. Does this mean that we should never use a saw, light a fire, or discuss [insert a controversial topic here]? Somehow people came up with protocols to work with inherently dangerous material things that lower the ri…

> Yes, some ideas are inherently dangerous. An idea of atoms splitting leads to an atomic bomb, for instance. You're missing the parent's point. An idea not being acted upon is not dangerous. The idea of splitting atoms is not dangerous and the atomic bomb is not dangerous: An atomic bomb getting built (the idea being acted upon) is dangerous. Why are full disclosure policies recommended by security researchers? Why…

Leave the security community out of it. Your rhetorical questions are not at all settled dogma in the community.

> Why are full disclosure policies recommended by security researchers?

This is still a somewhat controversial issue. Coordinated or "responsible" disclosure appears to be advocated by most security researchers. Meanwhile, the full-disclosure mailing list still exists, but the activity on the list is far lower than it once was.

> Why is open source healthy for security in general?

This is also controversial. Open source software has its fair share in-the-wild 0days. The "many eyes" theory only works if there actually are many friendly eyes, and so far, it seems like that is not true. Nobody does this crap for free.

> Why is "security through obscurity" frowned upon? Because it is important to be able to discuss threats in order to better protect yourself from them.

"Security through obscurity" does not come from the "information must be free" community. The phrase comes from the idea that you should assume that your adversary knows everything about the defenses you have set up.

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#625

Post by Diederich »

rtpg wrote: post #585
Diederich wrote: post #339

Shortly prior to the recent US presidential election, I worked next to a nice, smart young man from California who went to a well-known progressive university in the bay area. Politics was very rarely discussed at work, but in the weeks before the election, there was some cross talk in the isles. He trusted me enough to message me privately that he was planning to vote for Trump. At that time, I was quite anxious abo…

I don't mean to be trite, but are you saying this person voted for Trump to "own the libs"? Doing something out of spite like that is a pretty miserable experience...

> are you saying this person voted for Trump to "own the libs"?

No, that's not what I said nor is it what I implied. He voted for Trump because, among other reasons, he thought Mrs. Clinton was a terrible candidate and would make a terrible president, and he personally weighed that more heavily than what he knew of Trumps disadvantages.

I don't agree with that assessment, but it is reasonable.

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#626

Post by [deleted] »

ironjunkie wrote: post #607
Diederich wrote: post #339

Shortly prior to the recent US presidential election, I worked next to a nice, smart young man from California who went to a well-known progressive university in the bay area. Politics was very rarely discussed at work, but in the weeks before the election, there was some cross talk in the isles. He trusted me enough to message me privately that he was planning to vote for Trump. At that time, I was quite anxious abo…

As an outsider to American politics. This is 100% my vision also. I know a lot of people that have moderate views that are simply shut down by liberals. As a response, they hide and vote for Trump. I see it as their way to elect someone that is not afraid to go against the accepted view of the elites and therefore going against all that political correctness nonsense.

[deleted]

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#627

Post by johnny22 »

Houshalter wrote: post #485
cortesoft wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. liberals are pretty tolerant of minority groups with more extreme opinions than average conservatives. E.g. muslims are pretty strongly against homosexuals among other things. But they don't receive anywhere near the same level of hate and vitriol even moderate conservatives will get. I think this is a common misunderstanding among conservatives of a certain type. The pattern seems to be: A right-wing person m…

>The problem is that liberals AREN'T tolerant of Muslims who have anti-gay beliefs; we are as against them as we are against Christian's who are anti-gay. In principle, yes. In practice they definitely are not. Liberals are not going on mass firing and blacklist campaigns of conservative Muslims. They aren't getting filtered and censored on social medial platforms. There is nowhere near the same level of emotional ha…

that's pretty easy. Muslims as a whole have little power, while the Christians do. Were Christians persecuted like Muslims, then likely it'd be the opposite.

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#628

Post by johnny22 »

Houshalter wrote: post #485
cortesoft wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g. liberals are pretty tolerant of minority groups with more extreme opinions than average conservatives. E.g. muslims are pretty strongly against homosexuals among other things. But they don't receive anywhere near the same level of hate and vitriol even moderate conservatives will get. I think this is a common misunderstanding among conservatives of a certain type. The pattern seems to be: A right-wing person m…

>The problem is that liberals AREN'T tolerant of Muslims who have anti-gay beliefs; we are as against them as we are against Christian's who are anti-gay. In principle, yes. In practice they definitely are not. Liberals are not going on mass firing and blacklist campaigns of conservative Muslims. They aren't getting filtered and censored on social medial platforms. There is nowhere near the same level of emotional ha…

that's pretty easy. Muslims as a whole have little power in THE US while the Christians do. Were Christians persecuted like Muslims are today, then likely it'd be the opposite.

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#629

Post by jaredklewis »

volgo wrote: post #613
Buldak wrote: post #514

The author says that it's safer to discuss "controversial" ideas in Beijing than America, but I wonder if that's partly because the ideas in question aren't actually controversial in Beijing. Presumably the ideas the author has in mind are those that might be interpreted to impugn certain disadvantaged groups. But if I found it more easy to say "gay people are degenerates" in Beijing, I don't think I would take that…

A lot of people think you have to watch what you say in China, and they almost always are people who have never been there. There are very specific political things you can't do, but otherwise literally not one gives a shit about you. You can say what you want, and unless you specifically go organize a large group of people and screaming in public something politically sensitive, no one cares. Ideally in a society we…

We don’t want organized political activists? Maybe you don’t, but I would say the US, for example, is better off thanks to Rosa Parks, MLK, and those other pesky people that “go organize a large of people and scream in public something politically sensitive.”

Re: E Pur Si Muove

#630

Post by dmode »

triangleman wrote: post #447
Cshelton wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to that as someone who grew up in Dallas, Texas, has lived in what many consider the most "liberal" parts of the U.S., and now back in Dallas (Texas forever); The thing I hear the most from people who have moved to Dallas recently or visiting is "Everyone here is so nice". I hear it all the time. Even work colleges who are in town for business. I heard one say a few weeks ago how nice people are here after som…

Have you considered that the culture of hospitality in Texas might be related to the values found in the Bible you are so quick to dismiss? Values are like the vitamins of culture: You don't notice how helpful they are until you get scurvy.

Culture of hospitality exists is many other places that has nothing to do with Bible. Example Afghanistan
Post reply on HN