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F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

nytimes.com

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Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#811

Post by johncolanduoni »

analogmemory wrote: post #659
komali2 wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking this over for the past couple months, because I was pretty sure this would be the outcome - that we would lose our net neutrality protection. So let's play out the worse case - Comcast, AT&T etc wait out the shitstorm and then start throttling traffic and packaging the internet, releasing cable-esque "plans." Is it feasible to just start running our own fiber to hubs? I want to learn more about the…

In San Francisco there's local ISP called MonkeyBrains that uses microwave tech to create a wireless network in the city. They put a receiver on top of your apartment/building and then run cat5 or use existing cable. It's pretty awesome and fast. So it can be done. I'm hopeful that people will be inspired to create their own local ISP in light of the new rules.

How is the latency?

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#812

Post by scott_karana »

lwansbrough wrote: post #805

I’m in Thailand right now and everywhere I go I see about 100 wires being routed along each telephone pole. 3 utility lines across the top for power, then the most incoherent mess of cables I’ve ever seen. One pole I saw had become a literal birds nest. These are fiber and copper lines for individual ISPs. That’s what the internet looks like in a free market. I wish this image of free choice of ISP was used as an arg…

Except that the incumbent ISPs virtually always have right-of-way agreements with municipalities, granting them exclusive cable rights.

Many states even legally prevent municipally-run lines, which is frankly ridiculous.

Thailand is lawless individualic striving gone out of control.

The USA is monopolistic lobbying and cronyism out of control.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#813

Post by charleslmunger »

adventured wrote: post #647
socrates1998 wrote: post #492

Slowly but surely, our open internet will get choked. This is just one step in horrible path that will lead to our largest corporations controlling almost everything in our lives with very little competition. I am blaming the tech giants for this ruling. They are the only ones with enough power to challenge this horrible ruling and they sat idle and watched it happen. They may have given lip service to net neutrality…

21 of the last 23 years of the Internet in the US, there has not been net neutrality. Turned out really bad huh. Net neutrality didn't exist in 1995, 2000, 2005, 2010, 2015.

Please don't spread this false talking point any further.

https://www.wired.com/2008/09/comcast-disclos-2/

"By a 3-2 vote, the FCC concluded that Comcast monitored the content of its customers' internet connections and selectively blocked peer-to-peer connections in violation of network neutrality rules. The selective blocking of file sharing traffic interfered with users' rights to access the internet and to use applications of their choice, the commission said."

Net neutrality has been the status quo since the start of the internet. First from the threat of regulation, then from Title I, then from Title II after Verizon's lawsuit.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#814

Post by mnm1 »

betterunix2 wrote: post #299
tptacek wrote: post #127

The voters elected a Republican government. That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine. Anybody who told you that lobbying the FCC was going to make a difference here was, whether they meant to or not, selling a bill of goods. As someone who respects but mostly profoundly disagrees with principled Republican la…

"That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine." That is not why this is shocking. This proceeding is shocking because the legal basis for this change is dependent on a false statements about the technology involved. It goes beyond just, "Republicans prefer deregulation," or, "Republicans favor market-based approa…

That's a silly expectation for a party that denies science whenever it's inconvenient. Climate change, the war on drugs, abortion, and more are all examples of this. This is the party of anti-intellectualism and anti-science, yet somehow you expect them to treat the Internet differently?

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#815

Post by billfor »

juris wrote: post #135

This wouldn't be a problem if ISP's weren't de facto monopolies. If there was competition in this space, then there would be incentive to improve the infrastructure and Internet speeds. However, ISP's kill competition by making legal arrangements with local governments to only do business with them, and by cutting competitors' cables. Since we have no way to guarantee reasonable speeds to small time websites now, we…

Google, Facebook, and Amazon are de facto monopolies and we don't do anything to improve competition in that space either. Ironically they were the leading advocates of net neutrality. We should also pursue antitrust legal and foster competition in their space as well. In the meantime, we are back to the status quo that was present in 2015.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#818

Post by patcon »

komali2 wrote: post #300
juris wrote: post #135

This wouldn't be a problem if ISP's weren't de facto monopolies. If there was competition in this space, then there would be incentive to improve the infrastructure and Internet speeds. However, ISP's kill competition by making legal arrangements with local governments to only do business with them, and by cutting competitors' cables. Since we have no way to guarantee reasonable speeds to small time websites now, we…

I've been thinking this over for the past couple months, because I was pretty sure this would be the outcome - that we would lose our net neutrality protection. So let's play out the worse case - Comcast, AT&T etc wait out the shitstorm and then start throttling traffic and packaging the internet, releasing cable-esque "plans." Is it feasible to just start running our own fiber to hubs? I want to learn more about the…

> I want to learn more about the internet and what it would take to bypass the ISPs. Can I do this?

Fwiw, a group called Toronto Meshnet [1] was investigating the opportunity for a community mesh project (which lacks incorporation and know-how of how to run an ISP) to partner with a non-profit ISP [2] (that lacks capacity, constantly gets shut out of the last-mile to new condo developments, but understands the ISP side) to have mesh accommodate the last-mile into homes.[3]

I think they're in a slow-down phase right now as they didn't get funding, but I imagine there's legs in this approach, and they'll ramp up again :)

[1] https://tomesh.net/ [2] http://www.torfree.net/ [3] https://github.com/tomeshnet/documents/tree/master/meeting_n... -

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#819

Post by croatoan »

Even Hacker News doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about? You people too huh? Can't be bothered to read the regulations that you supposedly give a shit about, you too?? Fuck man, the amount global social media companies can brainwash people is STUNNING!! READ THE FUCKING DOCUMENTS!

The Net Neutrality regulation passed on Feb 26 2015: http://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/2015... The 2015 regulation that allows global tech companies to monopolize all information on the internet, strips the FCC of its power to prevent censorship and monopolization, and hands control of the internet to the EU.

The Net Neutrality repeal set to be decided on Dec 14 2017: https://transition.fcc.gov/Daily_Releases/Daily_Business/201... The 2017 repeal of the 2015 NN regulation reverts all the bullshit from the 2015 regulation, eliminates global tech companies control of internet, prevents censorship, and returns the FCC its previous powers(the powers they had for the 20 years before 2015 and never once abused or censored or blocked or throttled with, just like theyve done with radio & phone for 83 years and tv for 50 years).

TLDR: READ PAGES 82-87 IN 2017 NN REPEAL.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#820

Post by tptacek »

tzs wrote: post #677
tptacek wrote: post #127

The voters elected a Republican government. That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine. Anybody who told you that lobbying the FCC was going to make a difference here was, whether they meant to or not, selling a bill of goods. As someone who respects but mostly profoundly disagrees with principled Republican la…

> The FCC may very well be right that it's not their job to impose our dream portfolio of rules on Verizon (certainly, a lot of the rules people are claiming NN provided were fanciful) That^ Too many people are trying to shove things that are covered by antitrust into net neutrality. This makes it a much harder sell. I'm convinced many Republicans could be convinced to support net neutrality if it didn't have that ex…

Many Republicans do support those principles, today. They simply believe that the FCC doesn't need to impose Title II regulations on ISPs to accomplish it. For instance: the Republican component of the FCC strongly believes it's already unlawful to block legal content to consolidate and exploit ISP market positions, and that the FTC already has the power to enforce that regulation.
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