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Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

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Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#171

Post by cm2187 »

chrisaycock wrote: post #164

Does Excel have a "plugin framework" for new languages the way Jupyter does? Ideally any language (Python/Julia/R/whatever) can be added by a third party without Microsoft's direct involvement. The plugin authors would only need to map a language or library's DataFrame mechanics to Excel's table layout. (Microsoft could even use Apache Arrow to represent the data.) I imagine there would be lots of possibilities by pr…

You can pretty much already do what you want with VSTO or XLLs. However having a standard scripting language installed on everyone's machine is a all different thing. It means you can add some scripted logic in your spreadsheet, give it to someone else, and know it will run without having to install or maintain anything.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#173

Post by neuland »

Yuioup wrote: post #116

As well as agreeing to this, I would add the following: * I would support both Python 2 and Python 3. Yes I know that the push to Python 3 is ongoing but there are a lot more libraries to be found for 2. Don't bother with IronPython. * I would integrate pip or whatever package manager Python uses these days so that people can download their own modules and use them in the Excel sheets. Not only that, the packages sho…

> there are a lot more libraries

Not to get into a huge python debate. But this statement is just blatantly false.[0] Unless you are in a niche domain, the library you need either supports Python 3 or (increasingly, esp. among newer packages) is 3-only.

[0] http://py3readiness.org

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#174

Post by PaulHoule »

chrisaycock wrote: post #164

Does Excel have a "plugin framework" for new languages the way Jupyter does? Ideally any language (Python/Julia/R/whatever) can be added by a third party without Microsoft's direct involvement. The plugin authors would only need to map a language or library's DataFrame mechanics to Excel's table layout. (Microsoft could even use Apache Arrow to represent the data.) I imagine there would be lots of possibilities by pr…

In the Microsoft world scripting is often mediated through COM:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model

that is how people do stuff with VBA and Powershell and you can do it in Python with

http://starship.python.net/crew/theller/comtypes/

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#175

Post by bluedino »

cm2187 wrote: post #147
canadianwriter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and the fact that the vast majority of companies use Office...

Which is also why it is surprising that Microsoft has spent so little time on office in 20 years. Outside of changing the colors regularly, there has been very few new significant functionalities between Office 2003 and Office 2016. And opening the VBA IDE is a nasty reminder. I'd argue large companies are still running Windows because of Office. The cost of retraining people, redesigning all of these user processes…

If you think about it, only 20% if employees can use office at a medium to high level anyways - a lot less people to retrain. The rest are "I click this button then do this thing"

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#177

Post by bluedino »

jnwatson wrote: post #115
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people writing VBA code for excel are only informal programmers. For example, I never took a CS course in my life but learned VBA and programming on the job. Since then I've learned python and other languages but when I'm doing a home project or something I always come back to python. It's just so easy. I was working on a macro the other day in Excel, it took me a couple hours to get it all working but I'm prett…

Unfortunately, there are several companies and hundreds of divisions of companies run entirely out of excel spreadsheets.

Next up, get rid of Access

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#178

Post by zoom6628 »

Much as i would love for the power of Python in Excel it is important that whatever is done is consistent across the office experience. Some of us old enough to remember the multiple versions of VB-whatever across Excel, Word, Access and that in itself was a blow to productivity.

Yes they should choose Python, and in the process decide if it will be Python with a .Net library (standard and core as seperate libs please!) or IronPython. This in itself is an important first choice.

Then it has to be done in a mechanism that enables the exact same libs and user written python code to work in the same way across all the Office products.

Other languages have been suggested, all good choices with their own merits. Lua is a good chocie for compactness and speed. C# is lingua franca of commercial developers so would suit ISVs but i think too heavy for end user scripting. Nim or even freepascal maybe? Lastly whatabout just using VB.net consistently? VB is a great language for newbs and casual/adhoc programmers .... but it gets ignored because of problems with consistency of implementation by MS.

Last point i would like to make is IMHO the choice needs to be based on: - ability to transpile to javascript so that Excel365 can be scripted from webapps - install-free deployment; should be built into Excel in a way it can be used without any user install for dev or runtime - standard vanilla language, not a variant

Disclaimer: A huge fan and long time user of python here. I also spent largest part of working life in ISV world rather than end user land.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#180

Post by toyg »

cm2187 wrote: post #147
canadianwriter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and the fact that the vast majority of companies use Office...

Which is also why it is surprising that Microsoft has spent so little time on office in 20 years. Outside of changing the colors regularly, there has been very few new significant functionalities between Office 2003 and Office 2016. And opening the VBA IDE is a nasty reminder. I'd argue large companies are still running Windows because of Office. The cost of retraining people, redesigning all of these user processes…

> very few new significant functionalities between Office 2003 and Office 2016

The first release to feature the Ribbon, arguably one of the all-time major changes in Office, was 2007. That took quite a bit for most users to get used to.

An Office suite is not where you add experimental features for the hell of it. People use it to get the job done in so many different scenarios, any change will significantly impact entire industries.

Office programs are the "lawyers" and "accountants" of the software world: their work has been more or less the same since they existed, and any major change to them is a basically societal upheaval, so their approach will always be naturally conservative.

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