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Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

theguardian.com

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Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#41

Post by wasx »

rlkf wrote: post #33
wasx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

But the society need not be based on internal oppression, to be an adversary to us: I don't think the kingdom of Castille in 1492 necessarily was a beacon of stability and lack of conflict; yet it financed an expedition westwards.

That is true, but I don't think fair parallels can be drawn between a southern European empire in 1492 when humanity was still discovering itself and it's place within the universe to an interstellar society. Society matures in much the same way as an individual does, albeit on much longer, slower time spans. Can you seriously imagine an interstellar society (which I truly believe would be a democracy, as I see no feasible way an imperialist dictatorship would be possible with that sort of decentralization of society) having the same ambitions as a pre-enlightenment imperial society? I think the goals, desires, hopes and pursuits of that society and the individuals that compose it would be fundamentally opposed to that sort of expansion and enslavement.

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#42

Post by andrepd »

dv_dt wrote: post #38
wasx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

What if intelligent life is rare because at some point some other intelligent life set up a systematic process of keeping the universe clear of it?

You've been playing too much Mass Effect 2 :^)

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#43

Post by stephengillie »

0bfus wrote: post #28
pmoriarty wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could also be just a dead spacecraft, than was once operational but is no longer so. That could also be why it's tumbling now, whereas once it may have flown in a more aerodynamic fashion.

it's obvious what you're describing but just wanted to point out that aerodynamic is a poor choice of words to describe an interstellar body :)

"Flui-dynamic"? How best to generalize from air to any fluid?

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#44

Post by raverbashing »

dv_dt wrote: post #38
wasx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

What if intelligent life is rare because at some point some other intelligent life set up a systematic process of keeping the universe clear of it?

People are fixated on that, but it's not the only solution to the Fermi paradox

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#45

Post by manicdee »

wasx wrote: post #15
cantrip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno I think if it were an alien spacecraft we should just keep our heads low and not draw any attention to it. Our first window of opportunity might be our last.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

On the flip side, the conditions required for life to reach interstellar technology are so rare that life-bearing worlds like Earth are highly coveted.

A planet where you can set up a city and not have to worry about micrometeoroids, radiation, atmospheric composition? Just sleep out under the stars without a suit repair kit handy?

That’s worth killing for!

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#46

Post by wasx »

dv_dt wrote: post #38
wasx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

What if intelligent life is rare because at some point some other intelligent life set up a systematic process of keeping the universe clear of it?

Then we'd certainly have evidence of this genocidal society no? They'd definitely be actively looking for other intelligent life forms, and if they were systematic in eliminating it, they'd have to have the infrastructure to do so which we'd be able to detect. After all you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, any life form like that would have the interest in finding and eliminating intelligent life before it becomes to big to be a threat, which would probably lead them to coaxing other intelligent life forms into making contact. No, I don't think this is feasible in reality, nor is there any evidence beyond "but what if" for that possibility.

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#47

Post by sandworm101 »

wasx wrote: post #15
cantrip wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno I think if it were an alien spacecraft we should just keep our heads low and not draw any attention to it. Our first window of opportunity might be our last.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

Rare per-star or per-planet, but in our galaxy there are an untold number of stars. In the "universe" as a whole, whatever numbers you throw at the Drake Equation the answer is billions of civilizations.

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#49

Post by wasx »

manicdee wrote: post #45
wasx wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've gotta disagree with you on this. Personally I think intelligent life is probably very rare in the universe, the sheer number of factors that need to go right for it to arise, and then the sheer number of factors that need to not go wrong for it to continue to exist mean any intelligent life out there is probably going to find us way more valuable and worthy of co-operation and interaction than say destruction of…

On the flip side, the conditions required for life to reach interstellar technology are so rare that life-bearing worlds like Earth are highly coveted. A planet where you can set up a city and not have to worry about micrometeoroids, radiation, atmospheric composition? Just sleep out under the stars without a suit repair kit handy? That’s worth killing for!

Wiping earth clear of humans and still having a habitable planet left over would require far more resources, risk, lives of your own and time then simply building a few colonies on planets like Mars.

Re: Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? First scans show no signs of technology

#50

Post by ambrosite »

InclinedPlane wrote: post #20
wasx wrote: post #11

I'm kind of glad to hear that to be honest. It's already too far away from us and going too fast for any spacecraft that could currently be built to reach it. It would have been a very cruel joke if the first opportunity for interaction with extra terrestrial intelligence flew past us so unceremoniously. Of course it's certainly disappointing that it isn't an alien spacecraft, but would have been doubly so if it were…

It's going pretty fast, but it'll slow down a lot as it crawls back out of the Sun's gravity well. It'll only be 100 AU away in 2034 and 1000 AU away in 2196. Which means that human made spacecraft absolutely will visit it in either the 21st or 22nd centuries. We could actually pull off a flyby mission within the next two decades or so if we dedicated enough resources to it. And as our launch technology improves over…

This is a good point. The Voyager 1 and 2 spacecraft are only 141 and 117 AU from earth [1], and they were launched 40 years ago. I have always thought that the most likely fate of the Voyager spacecraft is that they will be stolen -- not by aliens, but by humans of the future. Their positions and trajectories are a matter of public record; everyone will know exactly where they are, and the spacecraft themselves as well as the golden records could be of great value to wealthy collectors of the future. Consider how many times the wreck of the Titanic has been visited/looted over the past 20 years, and when it first sank no one thought it would ever even be found, much less visited.

[1] https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status/

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