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F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

nytimes.com

721–730 of 1001 posts

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#721
post #556

It's not democratic. It's republican. Remember that America is a republic, not a democracy. Each state has 2 senators/electoral votes because this country was founded as the United States. It was supposed to be more of a coalition of states united under a federal government, than a single nation. Also, California has a huge population with tons of representatives, and basically every elected official is democratic. I…

> It's not democratic. It's republican. Remember that America is a republic, not a democracy.

"Democracy" and "Republic" aren't part of a formal system where they're mutually exclusive.

America is a Democracy, and was meant to be without any question. It's a Republic, too. If a programming metaphor helps, it inherits traits from both. It's democratic republic with elected representatives. It's a lot of things. Including some mistakes which we've eventually recognized with official amendments and court rulings and other forms of change. One of the principles of the American system is that any part of the system is open for review, criticism, and even rewriting.

Maybe the way we elect the executive branch is one area that needs change.

> Each state has 2 senators/electoral votes because this country was founded as the United States. It was supposed to be more of a coalition of states united under a federal government, than a single nation.

The "coalition of states" thing was tried first, and it wasn't working out super well, so we got a new system that actually made a single nation and it's worked out better.

Giving states 2 senators and electoral votes wasn't done just because it was Totally The Best Ideal Thing Ever For Everybody. It was done in large part because it had to be done to get buy-in and make the actually working single nation happen.

Now, the practice does have some other merits. Rural areas shouldn't just be resource colonies for metropolises and regional voices are important and hiding 100 extra electoral vote easter eggs around the country could help everybody get attention and in principle be part of ensuring the POTUS is a reasonable representative of a plurality across the whole country.

But the thing that's manifestly un-representative (and doesn't serve any clear purpose as far as "Republic-ness" goes) is the whole winner-take-all approach to awarding electoral votes.

We could fix that as a country and have a more representative presidential election by requiring states to award their electoral votes proportionally to how the population votes.

If the principle you care about when you say "we're a Republic" is something along the lines of avoiding the tyranny of the majority, awarding proportional electoral votes to the candidate that came away with the minority state-by-state is right in line with that.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#722
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Local governments have been legally prohibited from making exclusive ISP franchise agreements for quite a while now. IMHO the only thing really preventing local competition is the economic aspects of laying multiple physical wires to residences giving the setup strong natural monopoly conditions.

Source? Every single city I've lived in has such an agreement. One cable provider, one phone(DSL) provider. There might be smaller, internet only companies.

Do they have an agreement with the local city, or is it a natural monopoly? It's unclear what causes that condition of a lack of choices in a given area.

https://www.wilmerhale.com/pages/publicationsandnewsdetail.a... (March 5, 2007)

>In streamlining the franchising process and preempting (Local Franchising Agency) LFAs from taking action inconsistent with its reforms, the FCC relied primarily on its statutory authority to carry out the Cable Act’s mandate that LFAs “may not grant an exclusive franchise and may not unreasonably refuse to award an additional competitive franchise.” The FCC interpreted that mandate to cover not only the unreasonable denial of a cable franchise, but also unreasonable delay in action on a franchise application and the conditioning of a franchise on unreasonable terms.

Now local cable/isps do mess with the process of permitting and right of ways as much as they can when competitors arise, and local governments are susceptible to both corruption and being overwhelmed by the large corporations deploying such tactics. Just maybe not in that specific way of signing monopoly franchise agreements. So I'm under no illusions that this prohibition of monopoly franchise grants goes very far...

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#723
My prediction: One of the first actions ISPs will take will be to block ads from specific DNS names and IP addresses. Opposition to this will be fairly limited since nobody likes ads, but after the precedent is set they'll then allow ad providers who pay a toll to the ISP, and from there it'll spread to blocking/throttling of other content.

A couple years ago there was an ISP in the Caribbean who did something similar for Google and Facebook ads: https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20151001/06351732404/isp-a...

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#724
post #543

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I totally agree. Who cares if the worst case scenario is tiered pricing, as long as their is REAL competition, a competitor can come along and say "we offer it all for one flat fee because our infrastructure is better." Boom, done. These municipal exclusion deals are the real problem. I also think this is going to backfire and bite the telco's in the ass if they try to roll out tiers. The legislative outcry when joe…

But going after Netflix, for instance, will result in a price increase for the consumer, no? When Netflix's costs for bandwidth go up, they are going to pass that cost on to you.

I worry the average consumer's reaction to that is going to be as follows: "All the tech nerds were worried about this net neutrality thing, but since it got revoked my Comcast bill is cheaper than ever. In completely unrelated news, those bastards at Netflix have hiked their prices again!"

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#725
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans aren't pushing deregulation of the internet to make swing states happy. They are pushing for deregulation because that's what several billionaire campaign contributors want them to do.

Why is it so hard for people to take the other side at their word? Republicans push deregulation because they think it's the right thing to do , because they believe the market is a better regulatory mechanism. Perhaps you think this view is mistaken. Good, great, fine! Then argue against it. But there's no crazy hidden motive here. Republicans just disagree with you.

Invoking the term "deregulation" carries with it the connotation that this is a policy decision. But given the active efforts to avoid engaging with the topic on a policy level made by the FCC in this case, it's obvious that it's not a policy decision at all.

They don't disagree, they just don't care.

And that's before we get to the signs of influence/interest contact points.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#726
post #556

It's not democratic. It's republican. Remember that America is a republic, not a democracy. Each state has 2 senators/electoral votes because this country was founded as the United States. It was supposed to be more of a coalition of states united under a federal government, than a single nation. Also, California has a huge population with tons of representatives, and basically every elected official is democratic. I…

> Remember that America is a republic, not a democracy.

That's not what either of those words mean: the US is both.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#727
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a private citizen, can I (snip) just lay a super long fiber cable straight to (the internet). Yes. I worked on a startup ISP for a few years, which attempted to do this. It's actually really easy to do : 1) Pick a point where you can get connection to the internet. (Backhaul). This is usually a phone companies central office, but it can also be at a data centre or other point of presence. 2) Run fiber cable from…

You've covered the "last mile", but there is the upstream world to take into consideration. 1) Connecting into a CO is one thing, but your fiber is going to need to connect into something. Who is paying for your optics, is there a port or line card that can accept those optics? Does the CO actually have enough bandwidth upstream? This is a real issue. Back in the 90s, I helped set up an ISP in Boston proper and our m…

This is not correct.

Say you have a HOA with 100 houses and you got the last mile wired with fiber. There is probably some place ( such as community center ) that is owned by HOA itself. You get 100 pairs to that building. 10G LR SFP+ are $40 a pop all day. So you need $80 per link once. 48x 10G port switches are $3k all day. So it is 24x edges with a reasonable fabric oversubscription - so you need 5 of those because you want to oversubscribe core rather than the edge as edge requires interaction with a customer while core requires simple internal upgrades. In reality we are goig to do 1Gbit/sec to every drop delivered over 10G so we only need 100Gbit/sec to the edge. Lets spend another $10K on the "core switches" - which in reality are going to be the same as the edges but we will provision them in a way where should this take off we could replace core with 40 and 100G. All of this is going to cost us very little money. Hell, lets pretend it costs us $50K just for the sake of the argument because we like buying really expensive stuff

We can ride a single fiber pair ( remember, this is a residential service, so screw redundancy ) to one of the major interconnect centers because we can drop DWDM gear on our side ( prisms are cheap as hell ) and rent a rack in that interconnect location.

Monthlies:

$10K/mo ( worst case scenario ) DF to interconnect point $2.5K/mo ( rack at the interconnect point )

This gives us the L2 access. But that's not a problem. The problem is that 100Gbit/sec of non-congested IP transit is abou 55c per mbit/sec so that is $55K/mo.

So your cost is $67K/mo to provide 100 houses in a HOA with 1Gbit/sec of IP.

Lets say that you are in a magic place called say... NYC and it just happened that this wonderful thing is a building located right next to one of the big interconnect points and the developer who developed this highrise owns both buildings. You nuke dark fiber monthly cost. Hell, lets even pretend that the developer who owns both buildings lives in a building that we are wiring and he wants high speed internet connectivity to be able to watch NetFlix and PornTube. So there's not only no cost for dark fiber but there's no rack cost.

You are still at $55K/mo of non-congested IP to provide 1Gbit/sec access to every one of those 100 apartments.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#728

The voters elected a Republican government. That a Republican-led FCC would err on the side of under-regulating telecommunications companies is about the least surprising outcome you can imagine. Anybody who told you that lobbying the FCC was going to make a difference here was, whether they meant to or not, selling a bill of goods. As someone who respects but mostly profoundly disagrees with principled Republican la…

Voters != Electoral College. It's an important distinction because this particular issue is very clearly a national issue (and even a global one). And yet at a national level the one person one vote principle does not apply to U.S. presidential elections. Some people's vote counts more than others in this system even though it should not count more on this issue.

Unquestionably elections have consequences, but do not say we (voters/citizens/individuals) voted for this person or party or policy outcome. The Electoral College that did that. This president didn't get a majority of the votes, and much more relevant is he didn't even get a plurality of the votes.

This was an unpopular administration from day one by definition. It could have tried to grow its base. It hasn't. There's no national mandate for this policy change. Could the administration have supported stronger competition law while also deregulating net neutrality? Sure. But it didn't try to make this case at all.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> work to flip the House back A well written response, but I choke on salt when I read this sort of call to action. The house has been slowly and surely gerrymandering the country into hereditary fiefdoms for their parties. And if the solution is to relocate to "to the nearest plausibly flippable R district" then we're really saying that money is the real power. Today's decision is a black eye for the concept of self…

Don’t relocate. Stay in your damn house. Go talk to the people who are actually running in those districts. If you can write them even the cost of a ps4, they want to hear from you. In particular for Democrats running against entrenched Republicans, these people aren’t evil corporate fat cats. They own restaurants, teach high school, are small-town mayors, or nurses. They need help to compete. The DNC is not going to…

If you can write them even the cost of a ps4, they want to hear from you.

Isn't this the problematic issue, though? If you have some disposable cash, politicians will pay attention to you even if you come form outside their district. If you don't, they won't. Sure, they want people to vote for them but that's basically a function of how much money they can throw at the problem.

Re: F.C.C. Repeals Net Neutrality Rules

#730
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Republicans aren't pushing deregulation of the internet to make swing states happy. They are pushing for deregulation because that's what several billionaire campaign contributors want them to do.

Why is it so hard for people to take the other side at their word? Republicans push deregulation because they think it's the right thing to do , because they believe the market is a better regulatory mechanism. Perhaps you think this view is mistaken. Good, great, fine! Then argue against it. But there's no crazy hidden motive here. Republicans just disagree with you.

They disagree with me because I’m not giving them money for their reelection campaign. Same goes with Democrats. It’s a problem that needs to be fixed and one that’s really obvious to spot.
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