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Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#61

Post by auxym »

smortaz wrote: post #27
bdowling wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, would this imply numpy and scipy support in Python for Excel? How about support for Excel worksheets within Jupyter notebooks?

That's for the Excel team to decide. My personal hope is that they'll offer as a base: * Python 3 * Numpy, SciPy, Pandas, Matplotlib, Altair, ... * Pythonic bindings for Excel APIs (sheets, etc etc) * VSCode's Python Editor + Debugger built in * Some sort of conda based env/pkg mgmt * Right-click, "Open in Jupyter" (data/code) *

Transparent access to Excel tables as Pandas Dataframes would be so, so very awesome.

I mean, MS implemented these really nice Tables in excel, but then left us no way to easily query them with something like SQL.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#62

Post by beachy »

muxator wrote: post #54

I am 90% certain that MS has abandoned its EEE strategy from the nineties. But the scars from that era are so vivid in my mind, that I feel the need of a confirmation.

What do you want confirmation of?

That MS is now a gentle, caring beast? Large organizations are not like that, they are money making machines that adopt strategies to maximise profit. EEE is no longer such a strategy, though it worked very well for a long time.

Will MS ever go EEE again? In a heartbeat if they felt it would maximise profits.

Does that seem likely in the short to medium term? No, the industry is different now, and they have to play nice.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#63

Post by cm2187 »

Might be worth reminding everyone of a dead Microsoft project called VSTA, which was basically a live .net IDE embedded in Office. Effectively a mini visual studio inside any office application, where you can write any .net language. This would have allowed people to script in VB.net, C# or F#. Microsoft killed the project before it shipped (but licensed VSTA as a scripting tool for third party apps for a while). It's a pitty. I think this would have been a better solution than python.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#64

Post by themoonbus »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #42
gregschlom wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Python is great for scripting and for small projects, but I believe strong, static typing is an essential feature for large scale projects. I wouldn't want to use Python for anything that's predicted to end up with more than a couple thousand lines of code.

People will tell you that instagram uses python or yelp or other big name projects use python. Certainly, type checking is not Essential to a large project the same way utensils are not essential when you eat. You can just use your hands to shove all the food into your mouth.

As an Indian, I'm not sure what I'm supposed to make of your analogy...

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#65

Post by andygreenwell »

Glad to hear that the Excel team is finally listening to your requests on this one. It's been a long time coming. Too bad they weren't interested during the TC days. If it does happen, it would be great if you could get the Cloud Numerics effort rebooted as well. There might still be a few people from our old team at NERD capable of resurrecting it.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#66

Post by auxym »

Groxx wrote: post #24
esmi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From a security point of view how is embedding python different from embedding Visual Basic? This is not my area of expertise so I’m genuinely curious.

Potentially different. .NET allows signed binaries / libs / a fully signed execution context, Python has nothing equivalent AFAIK.

Excel VBA is not .Net though. It's plain old VB code in text files inside the .xlsx, and you just have to trust it (or not).

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#67

Post by jeremiep »

gregschlom wrote: post #17
blhack wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>aren't programmers Also extremely popular with people who are programmers and need to do things. Sorry, this is a frustration of mine lately. Python is a fantastic introductory language. It's also a fantastic general purpose language. Newbies get turned off of it because it feels too easy, and they know that "real" programming is supposed to be hard.

I disagree. Python is great for scripting and for small projects, but I believe strong, static typing is an essential feature for large scale projects. I wouldn't want to use Python for anything that's predicted to end up with more than a couple thousand lines of code.

This is to script spreadsheets, not build the next Netflix.

I would hate a typed language in there. Besides most static typing systems are ridiculously weak and introduce more headaches than they actually solve.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#69

Post by bogomipz »

gregschlom wrote: post #17
blhack wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>aren't programmers Also extremely popular with people who are programmers and need to do things. Sorry, this is a frustration of mine lately. Python is a fantastic introductory language. It's also a fantastic general purpose language. Newbies get turned off of it because it feels too easy, and they know that "real" programming is supposed to be hard.

I disagree. Python is great for scripting and for small projects, but I believe strong, static typing is an essential feature for large scale projects. I wouldn't want to use Python for anything that's predicted to end up with more than a couple thousand lines of code.

>"Python is great for scripting and for small projects but ..."

You mean like Dropbox, Evernote, Ansible, OpenStack etc.

Re: Excel team considering Python as scripting language: asking for feedback

#70

Post by ribosometronome »

erikj wrote: post #32
Daishiman wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that there are literally thousands of huge projects using Python at massive scale and hundreds of kLOC, it's clearly not essential .

"50 million cigarette smokers can't be wrong!"

An appeal to popularity is not really a logical fallacy if someone is arguing that something is (effectively) unpopular.
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