A lot less money than it takes to build a social network.
Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
21–30 of 41 posts
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
>We should also be developing robots that can do what the human can do. That investment will pay off in many ways That investment is absolutely worthwhile, but we aren't even vaguely close to a general-purpose robot that can do what humans do. One human geologist could do the work of an entire fleet of Curiosity rovers. It's a matter of if all of the associated dangers of space travel worth all of that scientific kno…
Yep, a lot of people think it's worth it. I'm with you. Good luck getting the money. One accident will cost years to "improve safety", and people will question if it's really worth it. Keeping humans safe is costly. I bet we can get the money for better robots. It doesn't even need to come from NASA's budget. The DoD, private industry tax breaks, etc can pay for the research. https://www.wired.com/story/atlas-robot-d…
Taking extreme sports and jobs into consideration, and the fact that space is considered more and more as a lucrative destination for profit making, I think that human beings will be the first to do most of the ground breaking work. Virgin Galactic, the SpaceX moon flyby, etc. are meant for tourists, hence the different approach to absolute safety. I think the public's acceptance of the dangers of space, and the thrill/benefits of confronting them will come before we get to the point of having the necessary robot tech to make significant progress without humans on site. Then again if you consider things like Andy Weir's The Martian you realise that's a likely scenario of the kind of spending that might happen in the case of a stranded astronaut after a disaster, sending more afterwards would still be a financial decision rather than one of public opinion regarding safety however, and in my opinion the tech and financial support for these sorts of missions is going to be up to it in a few years.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#23Can you really get to the moon with just $90M? My impression is that SpaceX is just about the cheapest launch provider currently available, and they charge something like $50-60M to get to orbit. And then you need to do all the tech required to land on the lunar surface as well. Do they anticipate getting additional funding or decreasing costs?
I would imagine the initial funding does not include the cost of the rocket. The risk of this effort is not in the trans-lunar stage. Reliable solutions for that can be purchased off the shelf. A seed-stage company needs to prove out the custom tech required for its own application, then if there's a business case what they're doing in the first place they can go raise additional funding at a higher valuation to cover the cost of launch. No reason to suffer many times more dilution on that now.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#24First, we should accelerate building better robots to do the work of humans, then send thousands throughout the solar system. This will be cheaper and faster than manned space flight... Anyway, I went through this a few years ago on HN after the Virgin Galactic accident. People argued that it was only a minor setback. Any setback that involves humans costs a lot of money and time.
Robots don't get anywhere near the effectiveness of boots on the ground, even with the most advanced robotic explorers we have today. All of the science done by the Martian rovers could have been done by a human geologist in a few hours work (except the traversal itself, so let's add a day's hike on top of a few hours lab work). And the robots are only really able to inspect the stuff that happens to be exposed on the ground around them and easily reached by limited robotic manipulators.
Sending humans to Mars for even a 30-day mission would be orders of magnitude more science return than the entire robotic exploration program to date.
And that's without considering relativity time-lag. There's serious consideration of an orbital precursor mission to Mars that would put robotic handlers in Martian orbit, or a free-return trajectory near Mars, without a lander, to do little more than remote control a couple of Curiosity-style rovers that accompany them (and maybe visit one or both low-gravity martian moons). It's anticipated that the time-lag reduction alone could vastly increase the amount of science that could be done on a robotic mission before the nuclear batteries die or servos get clogged with dust.
And of course all the robotic arguments are predicated on basic science being the only reason to go in the first place. In reality, most of the people interested in Mars and space exploration generally want people to permanently settle in space. I actually don't give a damn whether there was once life on Mars.. but there damn well better be human societies there within my lifetime.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Curiosity cost us about $2 billion and it has some of the most state of the art systems on board. Among these was its drill, which was supposed to provide some of the most important science from the mission. And as my use of past tense probably belies, it broke after 15 activations. [1] Redundancies and the best NASA has on it notwithstanding, it remains broken. They've now, a year later, developed a high risk idea t…
It will cost $200 billion to get to Mars by 2040? That's a lot of cheaper robotic missions. If something breaks, there's another one in the works. We should also be developing robots that can do what the human can do. That investment will pay off in many ways. Btw, the first DARPA Grand Challenge was a bust in 2004. No one finished. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA_Grand_Challenge#2004_Gra...
> It will cost $200 billion to get to Mars by 2040?
That's not a lower bound. That's an upper bound on what hopeful NASA contractors think they can milk the government for in doing it The NASA Way.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#26Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yep, a lot of people think it's worth it. I'm with you. Good luck getting the money. One accident will cost years to "improve safety", and people will question if it's really worth it. Keeping humans safe is costly. I bet we can get the money for better robots. It doesn't even need to come from NASA's budget. The DoD, private industry tax breaks, etc can pay for the research. https://www.wired.com/story/atlas-robot-d…
Taking extreme sports and jobs into consideration, and the fact that space is considered more and more as a lucrative destination for profit making, I think that human beings will be the first to do most of the ground breaking work. Virgin Galactic, the SpaceX moon flyby, etc. are meant for tourists, hence the different approach to absolute safety. I think the public's acceptance of the dangers of space, and the thri…
Yeah, someone always brings up mining, Alaskan crabbing (was it crabbing?), etc. Anyway sure, 4 years ago we had the same conversation... I guess someday greed might overcome the risk. Still, the lawsuits over loved ones could get expensive.
My observation is that we can start immediately with attainable goals, at a cost we'll likely accept, with no risk of human life, and with immediate economic and technological benefits.
In the meantime, we've lost 4 years... with another decade more with no real goal.
My suggestion makes forward progress every year. At some point, sending humans to Mars, for example, becomes a small inexpensive step, rather than a giant costly leap.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one said it would be easy. You guys added that. It would be difficult and expensive, but cheaper, faster, and easier than man space flight.
> cheaper, faster, and easier We don't know that, right? We don't know how much it would cost to develop the tech; we don't know how long it would take; we don't know how difficult it would be. It might actually be cheaper to send canned apes throughout the solar system, than human minds in robot bodies; we just don't know yet. This is at best a Fermi problem, where we can start throwing numbers out and hope our esti…
We send what we have now then iterate. Release early, release often. Funding robotics, AI, etc is not a NASA funded goal but goes under defense budget, tax deductions for industry, etc.
The real problem is getting the money for space. No one wants to write a big check for Mars. They’ll write big checks for the Pentagon, automation in manufacturing, and strategic national goals.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
So you would prefer JFK to have said: "We choose to send robots to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, because they are easy and cheaper and faster..." It's worth reading the whole speech: https://er.jsc.nasa.gov/seh/ricetalk.htm It ends with: "Well, space is there, and we're going to climb it, and the moon and the planets are there, and new hopes for knowledge and peace are…
Let me blog it. I get tired of answering this question. The short answer is if we had built robots and sent hundreds into space, we'd have more humans in space now because it would be safer and cheaper. We'd also learn more quickly. We'd also have more advanced robots because of the investment. We reached the moon, spent a few years, then gave up because of cost. Would you rather have a new robotic explorer, or two o…
Totally agreed. We could have an army of terraforming robots establish a space on Mars, for instance, then send humans there when we're sure it's hospitable. Or send drones throughout the galaxy with human embryos to potential habitable planets. An ethics nightmare, to be sure, but interesting to consider the implications nonetheless.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#29Huh. Is Japan company trying to reach to the moon? Haha.
Re: Japanese startup Ispace raises $90M, targets landing on moon surface by 2020
#30Huh. Is Japan company trying to reach to the moon? Haha.
Hey, take a look at the guidelines for HN. Its preferrable to have comments here that have something to offer to the discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html