Related: http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html
E Pur Si Muove
11–20 of 853 posts
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#12Isn't this just asking for your ideas to not be criticized? Me: let's extend life Someone else: If people live a lot longer it will be disastrous for the environment, so people working on this must be really unethical Isn't this exactly how it's supposed to work? Why would Sam complain about an encounter like this?
The problem isn't the critique of ideas, most people are happy to have an intellectually honest debate about their merits and shortcomings.
The issue is instantly accusing someone of serious moral failings and painting them as a social pariah to be ostracized, the instant they put forward a locally unorthodox view.
One group is constantly expanding the area of topics that are taboo, the other believes that having taboos is a bad long term plan for society.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#13Next time he's in China maybe he should think about donating some money to a local union and see how free the speech is there. I'm no fan of the Bay Area but comparing to China freedom of speech is a bit weird.
Or conversely, maybe we should listen to people who are pointing out that we arn't as free as we think we are, and people who we think are more constrained may not be. It's a good thesis to try and prove.
It would be a funny assertion to say that you're less free to speak in SV where the worst you'll get is a tongue-lashing vs China where the worst you'll get is quite a lot worse.
How would you even fix this freedom? Somehow constrain people to not speak their mind when they disagree with you? Constraining them through government would obviously make us less free so that's out. Constraining them through culture is no different than what's already happening, it just makes people like Sam the winner instead of people who disagree with him. So again no freedom difference.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#14YC could open up an office in Padova, where Galileo spent the 'happiest years of his life'. Be happy to help, although we're pretty content here in Bend these days.
Regarding Beijing: I think he may have been in something of an 'expat bubble'. Speaking with other entrepreneurs far from home, it's easy to focus on that. Try criticizing the political leadership, though.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#15Isn't this just asking for your ideas to not be criticized? Me: let's extend life Someone else: If people live a lot longer it will be disastrous for the environment, so people working on this must be really unethical Isn't this exactly how it's supposed to work? Why would Sam complain about an encounter like this?
The problem isn't the critique of ideas, most people are happy to have an intellectually honest debate about their merits and shortcomings. The issue is instantly accusing someone of serious moral failings and painting them as a social pariah to be ostracized, the instant they put forward a locally unorthodox view. One group is constantly expanding the area of topics that are taboo, the other believes that having tab…
Maybe Sam just has serious moral failings? If everywhere he goes people have a visceral reaction to what he's saying maybe there is some ethical shortcoming there. He's the common denominator in all the situations.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#16With other westerners or with Chinese people? I think that is a crucial detail that was left out.
Anyway, some people are building a future that others do not want to live in, so it is no wonder that some ideas are going to be received harshly. Nonetheless I understand that we cannot predict the future, so maybe, what people think will happen, won't. But people are fearful of a possible Pandora Box event.
I personally do not like those who are so excited, by the business or technology they are building, that they never stop and think about the consequences. I also do not like those who think, "my intentions for the use of this technology are wholesome, therefore I am not responsible for any harm that can be caused by others using this technology maliciously".
New ideas should be explored, but with caution.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#17Next time he's in China maybe he should think about donating some money to a local union and see how free the speech is there. I'm no fan of the Bay Area but comparing to China freedom of speech is a bit weird.
That struck me as ridiculous. If you piss off the mayor of SF you don't get disappeared, but that very much does happen in China.
In China, you can even get disappeared in your own home. It’s called “residential surveillance at a designated location” — indefinite house arrest under police watch. It’s used routinely against both irrelevant dissidents and high-profile targets like artist Ai Weiwei and Nobel prize winner Liu Xiaobo.
Maybe, in Altman’s Panglossian view, house arrest is just an opportunity to think deeply about inconvenient truths.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#18Thank you Sam for speaking out about this. Every few months living in the Bay reminds me of the importance of Paul Graham's http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html . The constant pursuit of ideological purity in the Bay, the desire for diversity of skin tones and orientations, but not of ideas, taking offense as a viable way of establishing social hierarchies. It's all very tiring.
> The constant pursuit of ideological purity in the Bay, the desire for diversity of skin tones and orientations, but not of ideas, taking offense as a viable way of establishing social hierarchies. It's all very tiring.
Well said, so well said that I'd like to tweet it and share it, but I won't, because of the exact problem it describes.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#19> This is uncomfortable, but it’s possible we have to allow people to say disparaging things about gay people if we want them to be able to say novel things about physics.
I think you'd end up with a lot more of one than the other. Personally I don't think there is a pressing need to encourage people's homophobia in order to gain some speculative amount of "innovative thinking", or whatever.
Re: E Pur Si Muove
#20Isn't this just asking for your ideas to not be criticized? Me: let's extend life Someone else: If people live a lot longer it will be disastrous for the environment, so people working on this must be really unethical Isn't this exactly how it's supposed to work? Why would Sam complain about an encounter like this?
No, he's asking for ideas to be criticised, and for the people presenting the ideas not to be ostracised.
You can say "it's a bad idea to work on extending life", but following on from there to cast the person presenting the idea as unethical is doing more harm than good.