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The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

theguardian.com

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Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#141

Post by Helmet »

dragonwriter wrote: post #101
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

> Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Because people who are food insecure don't have savings to relocate, or the ability to take the income they have with them, generally. > I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there Lincoln has a population of 250,000; there are, per the article, 720,000 food-insecure people in Silicon Valley (and with…

> Because people who are food insecure don't have savings to relocate, or the ability to take the income they have with them, generally.

B.S.

If they cannot afford it, they can move. My parents moved, I have moved, it f'ing sucks, but it's completely possible and feasible and the responsible thing to do.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#142

Post by gaius »

sax0n wrote: post #33
aaron-lebo wrote: post #2

This seems to explain at least some of the UBI-love tech founders have. They live as billionaires in a community, that despite all their money and highfalutin ideas doesn't actually take care of its own, unless you have millions if not billions of dollars. Of course to them the only solution is more money, that's the only solution they seem to know. They'd be more believable if they fixed their own literal and metaph…

I've never been to the US, so forgive me if I'm ignorant, but if the problem is poverty, surely the solution is more money? What's wrong with a UBI or some other mechanism to deliver that?

No, the problem of "things are expensive because demand outstrips supply" cannot be solved with more money. Only by more things.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#143

Post by Helmet »

d--b wrote: post #18
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food? How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working? Are there really than many jobs for people who flip burgers in Lincoln, Nebraska? And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better?

> How? How do you move to Nebraska when you have $100/week for food?

You scrounge and save up or work odd jobs and get enough to move.

> How do you find a job, when you have literally 0-day you can spend without working?

There are plenty of jobs. They're not very good jobs, or jobs that most people want to do, but life isn't always about doing what you want. If you cannot afford to live somewhere, you need to move.

> And are people who flip burgers in Nebraska so much better?

My parents worked jobs equivalent to that in Washington D.C. It became impossible, so they moved to southern Virginia. You can live in southern Virginia on minimum wage jobs. There was food on the table every night, and a roof above our heads.

It sucked, don't get me wrong, but we managed.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#144

Post by wpietri »

Helmet wrote: post #135
julesqs wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're not addressing the people in article at all. It literally references a single mother that works in kitchens and you're complaining about upper middle class people that sneer at Nebraska? what's wrong with you? People live where jobs are, and a lot of them have reasons to stay in the Bay. She has children and a life. She's not a fucking software engineer that can just pick and move.

Yes, she can move. If she cannot afford to live there, she can move. It sucks, but life sucks and sometimes it means you can't live exactly where or how you want to. My parents worked as "pickers" for the Home Shopping Network near DC, making minimum wage. It became financially untenable, so they moved to southern Virginia to a place with good schools and where you can live and get by on low income salaries.

That your parents once did something in different circumstances does not mean everybody can here and now.

Even if we value family connections on a pure cash basis -- which I don't recommend -- moving can be bad for people. E.g., the cost of replacing grandparents with professional childcare can be astronomical.

Family also provides an economic buffer against the ups and downs that are especially hard on the poor. What if your old car has a sudden breakdown that you can't afford to fix? If you have family around, perhaps you can borrow somebody's old car or get a ride to work. Move to a place where you have no social network, though, and you could be in deep trouble.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#145

Post by Helmet »

knightofmars wrote: post #92
elgenie wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do you move? A train or bus from the Bay Area to Nebraska will run around $100. That’s around the same amount as Bay Area rent costs for just the time spent on the train/bus during the trip. > How do you find a job? To start, “Help Wanted” signs and odd jobs in the usual places (e.g. Home Depot). Then, network or use free internet at public libraries to search for something better. > Are there really many jobs…

TL;DR: "They should just move." is a naive response to the issue presented. Children and family/friends who are around to support you and also sometimes watch your children are often a reason. Could someone move themselves and their two children? Yes, it would cost $300 (to start). Then you'd need to find a place where all three of you could live before you've actually even found a job. This short-term place to live…

> The reality is those perspectives are from someone educated enough to understand economics, government programs and how the system works, and someone with a supportive well functioning family. All of which someone working a food-service job is unlikely to have.

Don't make assumptions.

They can move. My reality is of a first-generation immigrant. My parents did not have degrees and worked minimum wage jobs. They moved multiple times when it became financially unfeasible to live somewhere.

It wasn't fun, it sucked a lot actually, but we did what we had to do, not what we wanted to do.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#146

Post by Helmet »

wpietri wrote: post #144
Helmet wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, she can move. If she cannot afford to live there, she can move. It sucks, but life sucks and sometimes it means you can't live exactly where or how you want to. My parents worked as "pickers" for the Home Shopping Network near DC, making minimum wage. It became financially untenable, so they moved to southern Virginia to a place with good schools and where you can live and get by on low income salaries.

That your parents once did something in different circumstances does not mean everybody can here and now. Even if we value family connections on a pure cash basis -- which I don't recommend -- moving can be bad for people. E.g., the cost of replacing grandparents with professional childcare can be astronomical. Family also provides an economic buffer against the ups and downs that are especially hard on the poor. Wha…

We had no family here. If your car breaks down and you can't take it in, you fix it - been there, done that.

I sympathize with their situation, I have personally LIVED their situation, but if they cannot afford to live somewhere they need to figure out how to move.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#147

Post by newshorts »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

I find your opinion a bit harsh and generalized.

However you do have a point. If people simply left, it would put upward pressure on wages for lower income jobs. But it seems there’s a limit to supply and demand. At some point things become borderline predatory.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#149

Post by someguydave »

Joe-Z wrote: post #70
nostrademons wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what you're saying. I think it's an appeal to personal responsibility, which I don't disagree with but misses the point. Correct me if I'm wrong on that interpretation. The root of Silicon Valley's successes and its problems are the same thing, and they both stem from how markets operate. New technologies in automation allow companies to successfully compete with incumbents but use drastically less…

>What do you do with the people left behind? What do you do with the engineers once they've written all the software to automate our daily lives? But haven't you read what the very empathetic and kind poster before suggested as an answer?: These fucking losers should move to whatever hill cave's still vacant, because they are to blame for not having gotten rich fast enough. I really like your writing, very precise an…

Your "option of taxing and fair redistribution" is actually a monstrous dictatorship. Every time it has been tried, many have perished and the median wealth has declined.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#150

Post by deadmetheny »

mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

"Just move" is not a tenable solution. These people most likely can't afford to move to begin with. Then, on top of that, if their entire lives of friends and family are based there, why would they want to move? Who are you, a self-admitted (presumably tech industry) interloper, to tell them that they should just leave their home and go to the home that you yourself have forsaken? These people are far more likely to have lived there for their entire lives, making due with whatever they can make due.

I live in the Midwest, I like it here, and I would welcome people who want to move here, but this is telling them to come here for all of the wrong reasons.

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