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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#341

Post by StudentStuff »

davidgh wrote: post #228

As a parent of three adolescents I enjoy the fact that I can reach my kids whenever and Find My Friends allows me to confirm that they made it to school safely on a snowy day, for example. However. I did some volunteer teaching for a couple of years at my son’s school. Interestingly, I didn’t seem to observe students reaching in and initiating engagement with their phone very often. It was almost always in response t…

You might enjoy an Orwellian access to your child's location, but as they grow it tends to suffocate the child's development. Many friends of mine who had been chained like this during middle school and high school proceeded to go to college and fall flat on their face in various ways (as their parents weren't there to strictly mind over them).

Kids can walk home on their own just fine. I used to walk a mile to school in Portland, OR and I was far from being in a safe neighborhood like I'm in here in Seattle. But, despite that I never had an issue during those years.

Instant reachability and the expectations surrounding it can easily snuff out personal development of children, at least one of my friends never left home, dated, etc, mainly due to his mother's incessant calls (80+ times if he didn't pick up, totally insane).

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#342

Post by StudentStuff »

aluhut wrote: post #101
mFixman wrote: post #85

Blanket bans of this kind rarely work, and policies like this are usually caused by other factors. My primary school had a concrete playground without any trees, and school policy forbid us from running (so we wouldn't hurt ourselves), from playing games like tag (so we wouldn't run) or clapping each other's hands (because we could hurt ourselves). We also couldn't play card games to protect against gambling, nor gat…

> nor gather in a group of 5 or more people for some reason Seriously...? There is like several worlds between this (even if it's true) and the topic. You should ask yourself why your parents didn't do anything against those ridiculous rules and I assume you grew up in some normal western country and not in NK or something where I would assume those rules to be normal.

Objecting to school policy is extremely hard, I remember one time I got pulled aside by a vice principal who was new to my grade, trying to nab me for a minor code of conduct violation on a code I'd never agreed to. Told him to pound sand unless he could produce a signed copy of the code of conduct showing I'd agreed to it. Got my parents involved along with a few other people from the PTA, but no luck.

He did make my life rather poor for a year or two, but I told him off a few weeks before school was out when he tried to keep a group of students on campus for an after-school event, claiming we couldn't leave. The darker side of me is all too happy to see that he is among the lowest paid administrators at Seattle Public Schools despite his long tenure. My former teachers make more, which I'm glad for!

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#343

Post by overcast »

peterburkimsher wrote: post #336
overcast wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh come on, that's like saying bit torrents are used for downloading legitimate software. No one uses it for those purposes, just like no kid is using their ipod/ipad/iphone/iwhatever for downloading and scripting Shakespeare for class. You are an EXTREME outlier.

I'd say that the people who actively disrupt other students by what they do on their phones are outliers. Most people are probably somewhere in between. When a few students are naughty, should the teacher punish a whole class with detention? A whole generation?

The smartphone/gadget addiction is definitely not an outlier issue. It is an ENTIRE GENERATION issue.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#344

Post by criddell »

wott wrote: post #337
criddell wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my kids' school, they encourage appropriate cell phone use in the school. For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. They also insist on the kids using some kind of calendar to track everything and most kids use their phone calendar. There's some kind of Twitter-like service that is used for teacher-stud…

> For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. Bad choice: this is losing one opportunity to get them to write something. As a teacher, one should look for every possible occasion to practice writing, especially when it has a purpose.

I think they can come up with a writing exercise a little more challenging to high school students than "transcribe these instructions".

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#345

Post by WillReplyfFood »

zacpdx wrote: post #271
irrational wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My children do not have cell phones (if they want one they can buy it and a data plan themselves - so far that hasn't happened until they are about 18), but teachers assume that every student has a cell phone. The teachers then ask the kids to do things with their cell phones like you are describing. When my kids say they don't have one they are not believed and receive failing grades for the assignment. I've complai…

congrats you are actively making your children the weird ones

Weird is good. We started out as a sub-culture of weird ones.

The problem is, that he doesent teach responsible drug use. Which modern phones and the internet basically are. So if you do not show what is appropriate (1 glass of wine) and by example show what you do not (engage in binge drinking) you are not preparing them for the world.

And we all knew how the kid ended up, who never drank a single drink before the class garduated. In diapers in the sickward, after he downed a whole bottle of vodka.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#346

Post by d13 »

Yizahi wrote: post #159
d13 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If phones are providing children with a more stimulating experience than school, the schools themselves should improve their product, rather than banning the competition.

You realize that it is impossible to beat mobile apps at gratification versus teaching science for example? It is impossible to learn math by reading clever anecdotes with numbers, students have to solve multiple repetitive problems themselves or it doesn't work at all. And current mobile games? Take some modern mobile rpg - they auto fight and auto quest, you just sit and watch new items dropping and levels increasi…

I understand what you're saying, but just because it's difficult doesn't mean we should give up or not try.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#347

Post by d13 »

logfromblammo wrote: post #250
crdoconnor wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your view a school's main product is entertainment?

In my view, education is more effective if it is also entertaining. There's no particular reason why pedagogy can't take advantage of nearly ubiquitous computing hardware, other than the textbook and curriculum racket that publishers are running. The mammalian instinct for play is essentially a learning mechanism. All it takes to educate is to structure a game such that the lessons being learned are useful in the rea…

This is exactly right, thanks for posting that!

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#348

Post by d13 »

pixl97 wrote: post #154
d13 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If phones are providing children with a more stimulating experience than school, the schools themselves should improve their product, rather than banning the competition.

If pure sugar is providing children with more instant gratification, healthy food should improve their product by adding way more sugar and salt too! If heroin is providing adults with a better escape, real life should step up its game! Or, maybe we should teach our children a modicum of discipline.

Rather than fighting for the attention of children, education should be where their attention is already focused.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#349

Post by d13 »

a3_nm wrote: post #148
d13 wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If phones are providing children with a more stimulating experience than school, the schools themselves should improve their product, rather than banning the competition.

I don't think the competition is fair. The requirement to teach useful things to children makes it substantially harder to design experiences that are as stimulating as pointless distractions.

I agree, schools have failed on this point.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#350

Post by upvotinglurker »

StudentStuff wrote: post #341
davidgh wrote: post #228

As a parent of three adolescents I enjoy the fact that I can reach my kids whenever and Find My Friends allows me to confirm that they made it to school safely on a snowy day, for example. However. I did some volunteer teaching for a couple of years at my son’s school. Interestingly, I didn’t seem to observe students reaching in and initiating engagement with their phone very often. It was almost always in response t…

You might enjoy an Orwellian access to your child's location, but as they grow it tends to suffocate the child's development. Many friends of mine who had been chained like this during middle school and high school proceeded to go to college and fall flat on their face in various ways (as their parents weren't there to strictly mind over them). Kids can walk home on their own just fine. I used to walk a mile to schoo…

Checking on a kid's whereabouts during an unusual event (snowy day) is hardly tantamount to "chaining" them or calling them 80 times a day.
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