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The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

theguardian.com

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Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#41

Post by JoshMnem »

stinky wrote: post #26
mjfl wrote: post #3

Why pay $2000 a month when you have the whole country you could live in for much less? Why should I have to pay increased taxes for your ignorance/provincialism? Is living in San Francisco a fundamental right? I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I'd suggest that these people move there, for the low cost of living combined with the vibrant-enough economy. Unemployment was at 5% through the great recession . However, I fin…

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

It's already possible if you have technical skills. Just find a company to sponsor you.

I once emigrated to Austria. Permanent residency would have been offered after 5 years, but I came back to the US before that.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#42

Post by d--b »

mjfl wrote: post #9
mprev wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you take that stance, it’s hard to square it with the fact that Silicon Valley needs more than VCs and startup founders to function.

That is economically illiterate. If it got to the point where there was not enough people to fill necessary jobs around the city the wages would rise to attract more people. Right now the opposite is happening: there are too many people.

Too many people? Are you serious? San Francisco + Silicon valley has 3 million people. That's less than half of New York City.

The amount of money the region makes is more than enough to support that population over that area...

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#43

Post by [deleted] »

kazagistar wrote: post #31
throwaway31231 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's more than that. Money's value depends on everyone's collective attachment to it. The winners of a game remain so, only as long as a significant number of people are playing. Ditto with USD, ditto with BTC. UBI is one way to keep people playing; but I'm extremely wary of this idea. UBI without some sort of communal/anarchist/kibbutz-ian distributed structure binds society in yet another way. 'You're free as long…

We already have conditional UBI for certain classes of people and situations. UBI is an incremental step of progress, and holding it up based on worries about not being perfectly utopic seems counterproductive.

[deleted]

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#45

Post by zxcmx »

jimmywanger wrote: post #32
zxcmx wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely the opposite. I've been poor and absolutely I valued connections and networks over the fundamentals, much as rich people do. Frankly I think this is the rational decision under the circumstances, factoring in uncertainty and decision costs. You think I'm SJWing here while I'm just trying to explain how people actually make decisions, which is typically not with reference to abstract tables, but based on pr…

The point wooshed above your head. You valued connections and networks, so you made a CHOICE. Nobody is forcing people to make choices. If you don't have money, you can move and have food and shelter or you can stay in a place you like living at except you have to struggle. Choose one way or another. Does not matter. But you made the choice based on your priorities. After you choose, you don't get to complain about h…

Ok, thanks for the discussion, I don't think we will agree but I understand your point of view.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#46

Post by foldr »

mjfl wrote: post #10
OfficialJoeGG wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes that rent trap is to high. You pay three quarters of your paycheck to just living (even house hunting you still need a place to live). You then have one quarter to spend on food (for 2 people) & electricity, water, and heat (if your rent doesn't cover utilities)& maybe some extra things like hygiene products, bills such as car payments, etc... You have almost no left over to put in for moving. So I don't di…

I don't believe it. Say you find a place in Lincoln for $500-$600 (which is possible in Lincoln), just by using the difference between old rent and new to cover debt from moving expenses, a mover could pay off $15,000 of debt within one year.

Not everyone can borrow $15000. Wealthy people seem often not to realize that poor people don't have access to credit on the same terms that they do.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#47

Post by danboarder »

sax0n wrote: post #33
aaron-lebo wrote: post #2

This seems to explain at least some of the UBI-love tech founders have. They live as billionaires in a community, that despite all their money and highfalutin ideas doesn't actually take care of its own, unless you have millions if not billions of dollars. Of course to them the only solution is more money, that's the only solution they seem to know. They'd be more believable if they fixed their own literal and metaph…

I've never been to the US, so forgive me if I'm ignorant, but if the problem is poverty, surely the solution is more money? What's wrong with a UBI or some other mechanism to deliver that?

You're confusing poverty with lack of money. Poverty is measured more accurately by looking at social capital (community connections that lead to jobs, family stability, etc). The world bank measures poverty in terms of health/capacity to work, life expectancy, and other factors beyond access to money alone.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#48

Post by stinky »

JoshMnem wrote: post #41
stinky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

It's already possible if you have technical skills. Just find a company to sponsor you. I once emigrated to Austria. Permanent residency would have been offered after 5 years, but I came back to the US before that.

Yep, it is easy for an expert to move to EU, but people going hungry in the article above are not experts in technical fields.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#49

Post by doktrin »

JoshMnem wrote: post #41
stinky wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a solution. At the moment successful EU countries such as Germany, Sweden, Finland, Denmark are struggling with aging population and not enough people to fill blue colar jobs. I think EU should make it easier for US citizens who get any job here to move over. Americans in general are super hard working. Europe needs hard working people, while we can provide them with free universal healthcare, free universit…

It's already possible if you have technical skills. Just find a company to sponsor you. I once emigrated to Austria. Permanent residency would have been offered after 5 years, but I came back to the US before that.

> It's already possible if you have technical skills.

By and large, an American engineer moving to Europe is trading down in a big way - including but definitely not limited to financial compensation.

Re: The Silicon Valley paradox: one in four people are at risk of hunger

#50

Post by IanCal »

mjfl wrote: post #10
OfficialJoeGG wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes that rent trap is to high. You pay three quarters of your paycheck to just living (even house hunting you still need a place to live). You then have one quarter to spend on food (for 2 people) & electricity, water, and heat (if your rent doesn't cover utilities)& maybe some extra things like hygiene products, bills such as car payments, etc... You have almost no left over to put in for moving. So I don't di…

I don't believe it. Say you find a place in Lincoln for $500-$600 (which is possible in Lincoln), just by using the difference between old rent and new to cover debt from moving expenses, a mover could pay off $15,000 of debt within one year.

If you're struggling to make ends meet, it's probably not going to be that easy to get someone to lend you fifteen grand.
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