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How to Take a Walk

ribbonfarm.com

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Re: How to Take a Walk

#111

Post by limist »

philwelch wrote: post #96
brianpan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disliked the part where he assumes he can tell where someone is born by looking at them. :( I wonder if he thinks he looks like a native-born or an immigrant?

Can't you? People throw off subtle cues all the time, and whether they're native born or not is something that isn't hard to pick up from that. Conversely, take a native born person of Japanese or Indian descent, and send them to Japan or India. The natives there will be able to tell he isn't native born.

Very true; even with the same clothes, body language often varies substantially from culture to culture. With a bit of travel and observation, it's quite apparent.

A friend of mine who traveled to Central Asia was struck by how balanced people appeared; he found Westerners take up "too much space" in their movements, and East Asian people tended to do the opposite. But at least during his stay in Central Asia, he noticed the people there repeatedly showed an unconscious balance in their body language: neither too loud and aggressive, nor too quiet and subdued.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#112

Post by jamesbritt »

barrkel wrote: post #22
ohyes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow American who takes walks,I disagree with the perceived antagonism. I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. That is the social anxiety he describes. I do have a little anxiety when I'm going for a walk, alone, not particularly doing or thinking anything. Will people think I'm some sort of weirdo? The observation that this worry is itself worri…

An acquaintance of mine (Irish like me) visited the US some time in the mid 90s. He took a walk in a suburban area, and was surprised to find himself being followed by a police car before long. When they stopped and asked him what he was doing, it dawned on him that because he wasn't jogging, or walking a dog etc., someone had actually called the police when they saw a stranger walking aimlessly down their road. Need…

"Needless to say, all of us back home were appalled by this apparently fearful and paranoid US cultural trait."

The US is a big place, about 100 times the size of Ireland. Neighborhoods differ. Please don't judge an entire population because of what happened in one suburb. In other places in the US you'd have people waving hello to you.

I'm sure I could walk through parts of Derry and have a dismal experience, but that shouldn't be used to judge all of the Irish.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#113

Post by barrkel »

jamesbritt wrote: post #112
barrkel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine (Irish like me) visited the US some time in the mid 90s. He took a walk in a suburban area, and was surprised to find himself being followed by a police car before long. When they stopped and asked him what he was doing, it dawned on him that because he wasn't jogging, or walking a dog etc., someone had actually called the police when they saw a stranger walking aimlessly down their road. Need…

"Needless to say, all of us back home were appalled by this apparently fearful and paranoid US cultural trait." The US is a big place, about 100 times the size of Ireland. Neighborhoods differ. Please don't judge an entire population because of what happened in one suburb. In other places in the US you'd have people waving hello to you. I'm sure I could walk through parts of Derry and have a dismal experience, but th…

I'm not judging the US. That's the story as it was was over 15 years ago. I personally have been to the US over a dozen times since then.

I have no idea what it's like in Derry, FWIW, as I've never been up north.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#114

Post by [deleted] »

jamesbritt wrote: post #112
barrkel wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine (Irish like me) visited the US some time in the mid 90s. He took a walk in a suburban area, and was surprised to find himself being followed by a police car before long. When they stopped and asked him what he was doing, it dawned on him that because he wasn't jogging, or walking a dog etc., someone had actually called the police when they saw a stranger walking aimlessly down their road. Need…

"Needless to say, all of us back home were appalled by this apparently fearful and paranoid US cultural trait." The US is a big place, about 100 times the size of Ireland. Neighborhoods differ. Please don't judge an entire population because of what happened in one suburb. In other places in the US you'd have people waving hello to you. I'm sure I could walk through parts of Derry and have a dismal experience, but th…

[deleted]

Re: How to Take a Walk

#115

Post by rdtsc »

rdtsc wrote: post #25
whimsy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this obsessions with calling things "hacks." This isn't a hack. It's an activity. I can't think of any conceivable definition of "hack" that this article would also fit.

It's a hack because it is an unusual or counter-intuitive way of solving a problem. Or meta-solve a problem -- recharge your mental batteries so when you get back you solve your real problem better, if you wish. This is just as much a hack as articles about exercise or nutrition are a hack. They hack the hackers, who ... hack.

Lighten up people, it was a joke... sheesh

Re: How to Take a Walk

#116

Post by vgr »

brianpan wrote: post #59
johnfn wrote: post #9

I liked the article; it expressed something that had been lingering on the edges of my subconscious, but that I had never brought to light - like most good articles do. What I don't see is why it had to have an anti-American bias. It doesn't help make your point, and all it does is antagonize your American readers. I am an American, I also take walks.

I disliked the part where he assumes he can tell where someone is born by looking at them. :( I wonder if he thinks he looks like a native-born or an immigrant?

I am sorry that part offended you, but I usually can, with pretty good accuracy.

There are studies (see Robert Levine, "Geography of Time") that use normal walking pace as a very characteristic indicator of geographic origin.

The FBI caught Adolf Eichmann in Argentina partly because they noticed his dissonant walking pace :)

Venkat

Re: How to Take a Walk

#117

Post by vgr »

I am pretty darn surprised that THIS post has gotten vastly more discussion than just about any of my ribbonfarm posts that's gotten on HN.

A few quick adds, since I seem to have mildly offended some of you.

0. The tangent on "having a life" here is fascinating. Nothing to add, but I am now seriously curious about the ethnography of that phrase.

1. Is this anti-American? I don't really think so. There is research (see Robert Levine, "The Geography of Time") that shows that cultures have characteristic tempos, down to typical walking speeds. Yes, the vastness of America has something to do with it, but I think 80% of the dynamics are social, not physical, and also relatively recent (cellphones etc. have helped Americans express this preference a lot more clearly). Back before Thoreau's time, I think this wasn't so characteristic of America. There are no better celebrations of idleness than the works of that uber-American writer, Mark Twain. The disease is fairly new.

2. "If you are thinking about blogging about your judgments of how others are not taking a walk, then YOU are not taking a walk." Very fair and Godelian critique, but I am talking about idle foot-and-mind wandering here, not meditation. I'll leave that kind of walking to the Zen monks. My model isn't a Zen monk, it is Tom Sawyer walking along kicking a can or something. The xkcd Bored with the Internet strip http://xkcd.com/77/ is sort of my point as well, except that I still take walks anyway, despite the irony.

3. If I came across as judgmental or telling people how to actually take walks... sorry. Meant to be mostly tongue-in-cheek :) Poor writing execution, not intent.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#118

Post by neilk »

dkarl wrote: post #108
neilk wrote: post #31

Tangent, on "having a life". I met a woman from New York who was visiting SF. We both had been to Burning Man. She expressed her distaste at how much time San Franciscans spend on their art projects. According to her, New Yorkers "have a life". So, that bar conversation ended pretty quickly. But later on I got to thinking about it. There might be positive senses of "having a life", but I think she meant it in the mor…

"Having a life" is how people explain why they don't do anything fun with their friends except eat and have drinks. "Want to ...?" "Well, yeah, that sounds great, but unlike you I have a frickin' life." For most of my friends these days, "a life" is a wife and kids, but for some of them, it's just a house, or pets, or even a job. Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers af…

> Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning.

Excellent insight. I was trying to articulate what having-a-life really means. So in this sense, having-a-life means that your duties are supposed to be active, but your entertainments are passive.

If your entertainments are active, perhaps the implication is that you must be a loser in the other areas -- not accruing enough status, money, friends, etc., since you have energy left over. And that isn't completely untrue; sacrifices are necessary for any project. (Although, for me, it has always been the stuff that I did for no good reason which brought me the best jobs and the strongest relationships).

But if someone has no dreams apart from passive entertainments... I don't know how they even get through the day.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#119

Post by vgr »

neilk wrote: post #118
dkarl wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Having a life" is how people explain why they don't do anything fun with their friends except eat and have drinks. "Want to ...?" "Well, yeah, that sounds great, but unlike you I have a frickin' life." For most of my friends these days, "a life" is a wife and kids, but for some of them, it's just a house, or pets, or even a job. Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers af…

> Strangely, "a life" never stops them from having dinner with you or meeting for beers after work. It just stops them from doing anything that requires energy or planning. Excellent insight. I was trying to articulate what having-a-life really means. So in this sense, having-a-life means that your duties are supposed to be active, but your entertainments are passive. If your entertainments are active, perhaps the im…

I think that nails it. There is an urge to demonstrate your success in everything you do, and some activities just aren't good mediums for showcasing how awesome you are.

Re: How to Take a Walk

#120

Post by ywgdana »

rdtsc wrote: post #18
ohyes wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a fellow American who takes walks,I disagree with the perceived antagonism. I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. That is the social anxiety he describes. I do have a little anxiety when I'm going for a walk, alone, not particularly doing or thinking anything. Will people think I'm some sort of weirdo? The observation that this worry is itself worri…

> I think part of the point is that there is something deep-seeded in our culture that punishes idleness. I observed the same thing. I have lived half my life here, half in Eastern Europe. I remember we used to take walks with my family after dinner growing up. Here in US it is harder because it is so unusual. I guess life is faster paced, but I think at some point it becomes counter-productive. Being fast-paced work…

I'm not sure I'd attribute it to a fast-paced lifestyle. My guess is that most people plunk down and just watch TV (or surf the web these days) after supper. After dinner walks would be a step towards a faster-pasted lifestyle :P

It seems more like it's tied to the importance placed on property ownership and lack of public common spaces. (Well, there's probably a feedback loop going on) We convince ourselves that owning a home in the suburb is so important and so wonderful that naturally we stay at home and enjoy our house.

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