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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#291

Post by juanmirocks »

I fully understand the thoughts against the usage of mobiles for kids and early teenagers. Notwithstanding, to me it feels awfully wrong that the state, and not the parents, prohibit the usage of anything (that does not harm others directly).

Same with Germany banning smartwatches for kids... https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/20/germany-bans-kids-smartwat...

And then about enforcement. As technology progresses, I see little real room for no displays / smart everything anywhere. I practically see it as a lost battle.

Still, I don't have kids, so I do not fully comprehend the problems that parents' may have with this issue.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#292

Post by JeanMarcS »

bluGill wrote: post #189
JeanMarcS wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did I had to scroll that far to finally find someone talking about the parents ! (or maybe I missed it) For me I find it astonishing that state have to make laws for common sense. When did it made sense to parents to let their kids go to school with a tool known for its distraction impact ? Some years ago, would you have send your kids to school with a portable tv ? The lack of parent education and common sense i…

Phones do have useful purposes for children. When school is in session that purposes is limited to calling 911 (the emergency number in the US). However once school is over it lets the student tell their ride (maybe their parent, maybe someone else already arranged) exactly when soccer practice is over and arrange a meeting place. Note very carefully that the useful uses of a phone are a small percentage of all the f…

I understand your point of view but parents managed to do without cell phones for decades and it was not a problem. Apart from the 911 example, it seems to me that parents are buying them a convenience (not sure of this word) in not having to wait 5mn more if the practice is not over when they show up.

In fact, it’s like letting the tv rise your kids because it’s easier and give you time back.

On a last point, I agree with your last statement, and I think a téléphone with 3 buttons will be the best of both worlds :)

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#293

Post by pishpash »

chrisper wrote: post #280
baldfat wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children given unsupervised access to the internet is ridiculous. People freak out if a predator lives int heir neighborhood but they let their child be accessible to millions of predators via their phone or table. This is why kids initial exposure to porn is 8 in the US and 10 when kids are getting addicted. This is all happening prior to puberty. I still remember working with children and teens and found out, throu…

As someone who had unsupervised access to the internet as a child, I turned out to be just fine. But maybe beacause the internet was way different back then. (I am talking dial up era intrent). To me after all these years the "new" internet got a dystopian image. If I had a child, I'd provide them unsupervised access to the internet I remember, but certainly not to the one from today.

A network is the sum of its users. Today's internet is, if not dystopian, at least a fairly adult place.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#294

Post by baldfat »

chrisper wrote: post #280
baldfat wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children given unsupervised access to the internet is ridiculous. People freak out if a predator lives int heir neighborhood but they let their child be accessible to millions of predators via their phone or table. This is why kids initial exposure to porn is 8 in the US and 10 when kids are getting addicted. This is all happening prior to puberty. I still remember working with children and teens and found out, throu…

As someone who had unsupervised access to the internet as a child, I turned out to be just fine. But maybe beacause the internet was way different back then. (I am talking dial up era intrent). To me after all these years the "new" internet got a dystopian image. If I had a child, I'd provide them unsupervised access to the internet I remember, but certainly not to the one from today.

No it was worse back then. From 1995 My Uncle saw my 12 year old male cousin was on AOL and he got messages from men. My cousin just kept deleting them. My Uncle pretended to be a 14 year old girl and it was bad and he reported it to the FBI after AOL did nothing about the situation.

Long story short the FBI worked with my Uncle within a week and they arrested 13 predators in one night. My Uncle was on Nightline and every major TV national network that year.

EVEN Longer story Steve Case (Founder of AOL) banned my Uncle for life from AOL. Steve Case is scum.

Here is a Senate Bill with the story in Congressional Records.

"On-line services are an easy way for pedophiles to meet children anonymously, noted Dyanne Greer, a senior lawyer with the National Center for the Prosecution of Child Abuse. ``Many cases are not reported, so I'm not sure anybody is really aware how much this is going on,'' she said. A Post probe uncovered these on-line horror stories: Westchester computer expert George Telesha pretended to be a 14-year-old girl on America Online and was quickly besieged by perverts sending dirty pictures.

https://www.congress.gov/congressional-record/1995/1/18/sena...

THE PREVENTION OF SEXUAL EXPLOITATION OF CHILDREN ACT

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#295

Post by setecgastronomy »

baldfat wrote: post #278
Montezuma_II wrote: post #25

I think this is a mainly positive move. Mobile phones are massive distractions to children, especially in a school context. When it comes to young children, I am skeptic to the use of digital technology in education in general. School should help incorporate good habits into a child's routine, such as reading books, and nailing reliance on phones into children is not something we want to be doing in schools.

Children given unsupervised access to the internet is ridiculous. People freak out if a predator lives int heir neighborhood but they let their child be accessible to millions of predators via their phone or table. This is why kids initial exposure to porn is 8 in the US and 10 when kids are getting addicted. This is all happening prior to puberty. I still remember working with children and teens and found out, throu…

> Children given unsupervised access to the internet is ridiculous.

Why?

> People freak out if a predator lives int heir neighborhood but they let their child be accessible to millions of predators via their phone or table.

Well advise the kids of the dangers. I and most of my friends had unsupervised internet access. We are all doing fine.

> This is why kids initial exposure to porn is 8 in the US and 10 when kids are getting addicted.

Every kid is getting "addicted"?

> I still remember working with children and teens and found out, through the police and parents, that a few of the kids 11 to 15 were using their webcams to get people to buy them stuff online. This was in the late 90s.

And guess what? 99.99% of 90s kids didn't use webcams.

> My job as a parent is to help them become awesome adult selves and learning not to be addicted to anything from drugs, alcohol, laziness or phones is part of being a parent.

No offense, but your kids aren't prepared for the real world. What will they do now that they are adults with no parental supervision. Also, no parent with 5 kids is "responsible".

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#296

Post by nasredin »

opportune wrote: post #106
Montezuma_II wrote: post #25

I think this is a mainly positive move. Mobile phones are massive distractions to children, especially in a school context. When it comes to young children, I am skeptic to the use of digital technology in education in general. School should help incorporate good habits into a child's routine, such as reading books, and nailing reliance on phones into children is not something we want to be doing in schools.

Digital technology has its place, but in its present form, it's too easy to get distracted. My nephews would probably spend 10x as much time looking up youtube videos and playing pay-to-win apps than they would googling things if they had access to their phones in class. I agree that in general the drive to "put a computer in every classroom" is absolutely moronic; in general, I think teachers don't adequately unders…

Yes.

Also IMHO...

Critical thinking (it's a real philosophical discipline with textbooks and etc.) should be taught in every school.

Recognizing fallacies and bad claims is frankly much more useful to me everyday than almost everything else I learned.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#297

Post by killjoywashere »

juanmirocks wrote: post #291

I fully understand the thoughts against the usage of mobiles for kids and early teenagers. Notwithstanding, to me it feels awfully wrong that the state, and not the parents, prohibit the usage of anything (that does not harm others directly). Same with Germany banning smartwatches for kids... https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/20/germany-bans-kids-smartwat... And then about enforcement. As technology progresses, I see li…

Children take cues from more sources of authority than just their parents. Having the state send the signal that "these devices have great potential for ruining your mind" is a strong and, as a parent, quite welcome signal.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#298

Post by GnarfGnarf »

ggregoire wrote: post #198

I'm surprised they ban them only now, and only up to middle schools. Smartphones are the easiest way in the all history to cheat on school tests. Our parents and grandparents could write 1 or 2 math formulas or verb translations on a small piece of paper; now kids can just have all the courses of the entire year (+ Google and Wikipedia) on their iPhone, completely hidden in their pencil case. When I was in college, e…

How do you feel about going under the knife of a surgeon who got through college that way?

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#299

Post by notatoad »

juanmirocks wrote: post #291

I fully understand the thoughts against the usage of mobiles for kids and early teenagers. Notwithstanding, to me it feels awfully wrong that the state, and not the parents, prohibit the usage of anything (that does not harm others directly). Same with Germany banning smartwatches for kids... https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/20/germany-bans-kids-smartwat... And then about enforcement. As technology progresses, I see li…

>Notwithstanding, to me it feels awfully wrong that the state, and not the parents, prohibit the usage of anything (that does not harm others directly).

They aren't saying it's illegal for kids to own phones. They're saying kids can't have phones at school. As long as the state is running the schools, that seems well within their reasonable area of authority.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#300

Post by romatthe »

When I was a kid in high school in Belgium, mobile phones were definitely banned in every respectable high school without needing it to be enforced on a national level. You were allowed to carry it with you of course, but if anyone saw you using it, the teachers would take it away from you. That included during recess. I don't recall ever seeing anyone using their phone in class, except maybe some kid trying to be edgy once. It was a pretty okay system that I don't recall anyone really complaining about. Parents were happy they could contact their kids if they were worried, and it sure was nice I that I was easily able to call for help when I broke my arm while riding my bike home that one time.

Of course, this was before the rise of smartphones. Those only took off around the time I got my first job, so I can't really comment on that. I definitely do recall playing Tetris and Wolfenstein 3D on my Texas Instruments calculator though.

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