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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#261

Post by gilbetron »

cspags wrote: post #27
noobermin wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is a step too far. Imagine they banned books during breaks. That's how far this is. I get you want to not have them use them during class but that is the general policing class behavior that teachers are supposed to do. Why ban them during breaks when it doesn't hurt their studies?

It may not hurt their studies, but perhaps their social skills. I recently stayed at a hostel, and when I first walked in I noticed how in the common area almost every single person was alone on their phone. It made me long for the pre-smartphone days in which I imagine travelers were forced to socialize with each other. While school lunch is a slightly different situation, I think it still applies that without phone…

I don't think socialization is a big issue - in fact, I think it can help socialization because it gives kids something to talk about or do. Lunches were excruciatingly boring and often isolating when I was in middle school through high school. Having a phone would have made it so much less miserable.

I'm generally all for the ban, though. I think the bads of the phone outweigh the goods in a school setting.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#263

Post by criddell »

irrational wrote: post #242
criddell wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my kids' school, they encourage appropriate cell phone use in the school. For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. They also insist on the kids using some kind of calendar to track everything and most kids use their phone calendar. There's some kind of Twitter-like service that is used for teacher-stud…

My children do not have cell phones (if they want one they can buy it and a data plan themselves - so far that hasn't happened until they are about 18), but teachers assume that every student has a cell phone. The teachers then ask the kids to do things with their cell phones like you are describing. When my kids say they don't have one they are not believed and receive failing grades for the assignment. I've complai…

I know some of the kids just have old phones from their parents or one of those $40 phones that are hanging in a blister-pack at the drugstore. They use them with the school's wifi so there's no data plan to pay for.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#264

Post by logfromblammo »

saurik wrote: post #51
michaelgrafl wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you in general, but I guess it's a matter of pragmatism and establishing social norms. Here in Austria the newly elected right wing government is going to cancel plans of banning smoking completely in restaurants (up till now there was a solution that involved having a separate smoking area if your premises exceeded a certain dimension). I'm not for a smoking ban, because I think it's too much of an intr…

As someone who grew up in the 80s near Chicago and then moved to California for the second half of my so-far life around 2000, and thereby had to spend an immense amount of time being looked at like I was insane when I went to a restaurant and automatically said "table for two, non-smoking"... no: you smoking in a restaurant is absolutely not a "personal lifestyle choice" :/ it is forcing everyone else in that restau…

And we're all set to repeat that fight.

  A: Sir, you can't smoke in here.
  B: But I'm not smoking; this is a vaporizer.
  C: I smell butter.
     Does that fluid have diacetyl in it?
     I don't want popcorn lung.
  D: Propylene glycol asphyxiates sea life.
  E: I have a fragrance allergy.
     Is that eugenol?
     I feel my airway closing up....
  B: But I have a nicotine addiction!
  A: Use gums or patches, or GTFO.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#265

Post by evanmoran »

craftyguy wrote: post #206
sridca wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

I believe my parents said their parents told them same thing about TVs, and their parents parents told them radios, and so on.

They said it and it was probably true =). There's a good reason why people aren't allowed to bring their TVs and radios to class.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#266

Post by bengillies »

virtualized wrote: post #176
coldtea wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?* Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained. Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's gr…

Learning the right things, in the right ways, is entertaining. I'd argue that school is neither about learning nor about entertainment. School is that experiment with the monkeys and the ladder. Its original purpose was making mindless factory workers. Students became teachers who taught more teachers and so on. What is the actual purpose of school nowadays? It's a place where you can leave your children while you wo…

Schools exist for the same reason that farms and factories exist: it's a lot more efficient having specialised workers (in this case teachers) who can do the job far more effectively (in this case teach 30 or so children) than having every person do it themselves (in this case every parent take a large portion of time out of their day to teach their own child individually).

The alternative to school was for girls to help out around the house until they were married off and for boys to either learn their father's trade and then do that for the rest of their lives or get apprenticed off to whoever could take them and then do _that_ for the rest of their lives.

School helps children create a life for themselves. If children don't learn anything there they'll find far fewer paths open to them later on.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#267

Post by ctrl-j »

irrational wrote: post #245
imgabe wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it not be possible to have a box at the front of the room that everyone has to put their phone in when they come to class, then they can get it back after class is over? If anyone's ever been in a secure facility, they have little mail slots, sometimes locking with a key you can take, to store your phone while you go inside. Seems like we could just put one of these in every classroom. That should take care of…

Then kids would just bring two phones. The real phone and a dummy phone.

Seems like it'd be pretty easy to enforce this one. A teacher will still catch students on their phone, and then it goes in the box with the dummy phone. Plus punishment for sneaking a phone in.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#268

Post by downandout »

irrational wrote: post #242
criddell wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my kids' school, they encourage appropriate cell phone use in the school. For example, if there is a homework assignment on the board, rather than wait for everybody to copy it down, kids are told to take a picture of the board. They also insist on the kids using some kind of calendar to track everything and most kids use their phone calendar. There's some kind of Twitter-like service that is used for teacher-stud…

My children do not have cell phones (if they want one they can buy it and a data plan themselves - so far that hasn't happened until they are about 18), but teachers assume that every student has a cell phone. The teachers then ask the kids to do things with their cell phones like you are describing. When my kids say they don't have one they are not believed and receive failing grades for the assignment. I've complai…

Assuming you can afford at least some kind of inexpensive phone for your kid(s), this is kind of a messed up position to take. Your children are failing classes because you want to make them purchase their own phones and plans, which of course is not realistic. So they failed because of something completely beyond their control and entirely within yours. As a parent, I’d be ashamed of myself if I had allowed that to happen. Even worse, you seem to be bragging that you deprived your children of this necessary tool.

In modern society, a smartphone and plan is as essential for school age children as the clothing you presumably did not make them engage in child labor to buy.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#269

Post by praneshp »

mankash666 wrote: post #249
mankash666 wrote: post #4

I'd like to be able to call my kid in the event of an emergency. I understand banning general cell phone use during class hours, but it's infringing on civil liberties to force an unrestricted ban

I'd wager that most respondents to this aren't patents with kids in schools. There's overwhelming support to allow parents to contact their kids without having to go through an intermediary at my kid's school, so who are all these people making academic arguments that are irrelevant?

FWIW, I went to a school for 14 years. I don't mind discredit for not being a parent but my arguments aren't academic.

Also honest question: I'd also like to see the overwhelming support you claim there is.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#270

Post by drak0n1c »

_m8fo wrote: post #201
Retric wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are not so binary. Plenty of schools have random assignment for students yet teacher A's students vastly outperform teacher B's students. Sure, the best student in B is generally better than the worst student in A but they are still generally behind the best in A.

Do you have any research to back this up? I'm curious.

Stand and Deliver was based on a true story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaime_Escalante

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